The Bnetwork Guestbook Archives: 14 May - 10 June 1997

Is there a B or Ishmael newsgroup? If there isn't, shouldn't there B?...
Drew Roberts <>
owosso, MI USA - Tuesday, June 10, 1997 at 22:08:15 (PDT)
Hello, my name is Richard Freeman, and imb2ru? That's my new email I'm a writer with a background as a daily newspaper reporter and editor, plus a lot of other things from a 25 year spiritual odyssey. Right now I've realized tha t the way to actualize my vision of saving the world, which has to do with KNOWING everything and helping any and all others KNOW and teach any and all others, ad infinitum global/universal Consciousness, is to become Internet literate. Also, I'm startin g to link many networks, including those of Barbara Marx Hubbard (Foundation for Conscious Evolution), and the Advaita Vedanta (aka the Perennial Philosophy or Zen or Taoism), and others. Write me at Let's connect.
Richard William Freeman <>
Spring Valley, CA USA - Tuesday, June 10, 1997 at 17:41:35 (PDT)
Wow!!! Reading Ishmael and B. was like the dance of Shiva, extacy in destruction of old worldviews. No, really, it`s all so obvious and still something you only come to realise once in a thousand years. Thanks goes out to the guy who gave me that book , (and DQ for signing a book in Austin), but still, it can`t be right that all my friends who`re into this live in the states. Their should be someone in germany as well... see ya, Alex
Alex N. <Stephan>
Verden, Germany - Tuesday, June 10, 1997 at 10:39:11 (PDT)
Incredibly simple, yet at the same time, so deep - so much to grasp, to process, to try to work through. When you cut right thru all the B.S., "B" presents to me one of the few "truths" I think I've vere really encountered. I need to talk it thru wit h others though who feel the same way & I find myself surrounded here in the Midwest by walls & walls of paradigms regarding our purpose & how we should live. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA WHO FEELS THE SAME WAY??!! PLEASE, SEND M E AN E-MAIL NOTE. MAYBE WE CAN GET TOGETHER & DO SOMETHING!!
Mike Stuesse <>
St. Louis , MO USA - Tuesday, June 10, 1997 at 08:14:33 (PDT)
Daniel Quinn is a very clever man. Great insights and folowup to Ishmel.
carol wolk <>
colorado springs, co USA - Sunday, June 08, 1997 at 11:03:04 (PDT)
'Ishmael' had a very profound affect on me when I read it. Now, from a distance of several years, when I think about the affect, it seems more of a confirmation than a realization. I had always had a notion that we were being lied to. Too many things d idn't make sense, even if I personaly was unable to articulate where the error (lie) was. The people I have introduced 'Ishmael' to, are almost universally impressed. Most however, seem unchanged by its message. It is usually recieved as quaint, yet less- than-life-changing. I try not to get frustrated.
John Zabel <ZipZap9694@aol>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Saturday, June 07, 1997 at 13:18:26 (PDT)
I have recently discovered Ishmael and have read it, Providence and the Story of B and am now re-reading Ishmael. I need to go back and relish the words because the first time I read it I was so overwhelmed at what I was hearing from D.Q.! I have always been in serious doubt of the 'Story' Mother culture has been telling me all my life. I now have the validation of my beliefs (or disbeliefs). Thank you, Daniel Quinn.
Mary <>
Maine, ny USA - Friday, June 06, 1997 at 20:42:46 (PDT)
On 4/17, I posted the following entry to the guestbook: [Okay, so I'll grant you that this isn't your usual signature to the guestbook, a reaction to The Story of B (though the book did change my life). It's more a call-to-action, but I hope you will i ndulge me in it. As you already know, if you've checked the What's New section recently, a company called Frankie and Zoe's has begun producing items with the I.M.B./R.U.B.? logo on them. I've already placed an order for my shirt (I plan to be wearing it at local Earth Day celebrations), and I hope you will soon. It seems to me that this is a great way to get people started wondering, and hopefully asking, just what the blue blazes this B stuff is all about. It also could be a great way to hook up with ot hers B in your area ("Hey! U.R.B.? I.M.B., 2! Let's talk, and then let's DO SOMETHING about it together."). Right now, the shirt is only available on unbleached, natural color cotton, and standard, chemically-bleached cotton, not on organic cotton or any alternative to virgin cotton material (recycled cotton/synthetic, hemp, whatever). So far, insufficient demand has been shown for such materials, presumably because of the increased price. When you order, please make clear that you would be willing to pa y more for an environmentally-preferable material. If we don't create the market, who will? Also, the company has plans to introduce a second shirt which has the koan from Ishmael on it ("With man gone..." on one side, "With gorilla gone..." on the other) , and a third shirt with something to the effect of "Another Friend of Ishmael " on it. You can be sure I'll be ordering them for myself; hope you will, too (no, I don't receive a commission for every sale; DON'T show me the money). BTW, I am very interes ted in meeting others B in the Kansas City area. If you're out there and reading this, message me, and soon. The ground is coming up fast, so let's get to work. We must remember the truth we once lived without questioning: We are not above the world, but of the world...] Yesterday, I called Jeanette Quinn (Daniel's daughter) at Frankie and Zoe's to find out if the shirts with the koan, or any other Ish- or B-related items, were ready for purchase yet. The koan shirt isn't quite finished, but it should be soon (check out to get an idea of what it will look like). Of more immediate concern to me, though, was something else she told me: so far, they have only sold three of the I.M.B./R.U.B.? shirts, one of which I bought. Which brings me to the reason for this post: What's up with that? I'm really curious as to why there hasn't been more interest in the shirt, and I am sure Jeanette and Daniel are as well. Any comments on this would be most welcome, and I will pass them on. Also, the subject of how many shirts they have sold came up when I asked her about additional ideas for shirt designs. One is the "Another Friend of Ishmael" concept mentioned above (I don't know who came up with that idea), and a second idea I suggested is to do a shirt with some form of the Taker story on one side and the Leaver story on the other. I don't have a finished text for such a shirt, but I'm thinking in terms of "Our culture tells us that the world was made for man, and man was born to conquer and rule it. Our culture lies (or: This is a myth)/Man was made for the world, to live in the hands of the gods." Would folks out there buy such a shirt? I think it's pretty obvious, though, that production of any other shirts is going to depend on perceived demand. Right now there seems to be very little demand, which is probably part of the reason that the koan shirt has not been finished. If they are not going to sell and be worn, there is no urgency in producing them. Anyway, let me know what you think a bout all this...
John Leon Fish <>
Kansas City, MO USA - Friday, June 06, 1997 at 08:33:33 (PDT)
WOW! I have read Ishmael and have almost finished B. What can I say? I'm trying to digest it all and shed a lifetime of Taker vision.
Barbara McCulley <>
Ann Arbor , MI USA - Wednesday, June 04, 1997 at 14:29:02 (PDT)
For all of my life I have been unable to accept our cultures ideals of religion and how we should live our lives. The numerous restrictions and arbitrary rules seemed to contradict the very essence of being a human. I have always put the human race ri ght alongside all other living creatures in the world and was disturbed by mother culture's arrogant belief that mankind was meant to rule the world. Ishmael and B finally gave me a common sense look at life and our relationship with the gods and the worl d. B has taken my beliefs and cradled and nursed them. They will now be able to grow with confidence and direction. Thank you DQ.
Eric Plum <>
greensboro, nc USA - Sunday, June 01, 1997 at 17:55:54 (PDT)
Daniel Quinn, Here is a little on how I came to "B" and some of the results, so far. My wife works for a magazine that, among other things, reviews books. She recieves many books to review, and for some reason, right out of the pile "The Story of B" jumped out at me. I set it aside, actually standing up against a window for two months before I got to it. I think it was the Nautilus shell that caught and held my initial interest. After starting it, as I am sure many people found, I could not put it down. My first D. Quinn read was "The Story of B". Since, I have read Ishmael too. I loved the Story of B because it linked many of my own life experiences with a connective thread which has been lacking, at least conciously lacking. Since reading "B", I have been inspired to research more, read more and talk to other people more about the future we face and the past that got us here. What has stayed with me the longest, is the length of time humans have been on the planet and survived, quite nicely, thank you very much. The graph depict- ing population growth booming into billions in a short time explains a lot of things. Combine unprecedented population growth with the fact that humans are presently consuming about 40% of all incoming solar radiation converted to green plant material and you have a dire picture of our future indeed. 40% consumption explains the high rate of extinction as one species consumes 40% of the annually available energy. We are competing directly with most other species on the planet for the basics; food, water and shelter. I have been inspired to write about my own ex- periences linking them with the research and study. I would like to mention "The Story of B" in the work. Let me know if that is OK. Enough for now. BB
Bruce Barbour <>
Bellingham, WA USA - Thursday, May 29, 1997 at 16:51:59 (PDT)
I thoroughly enjoyed both Ishmael and The Story of B. I appreciate the ideas presented, but what exactly is the call to action? What is it that we, as B, are supposed to do?
Rich Garner <>
Hammond, LA USA - Monday, May 26, 1997 at 09:45:00 (PDT)
i am a friend of ishmael first. this is how i began. i am b, second. this is how i choose to live. thank you for the support of this web page.
tracy rozanski <>
charlotte, nc USA - Sunday, May 25, 1997 at 16:37:54 (PDT)
Thanks for helping me get the pieces together. Peace
Mark George <>
Greensboro, NC USA - Sunday, May 25, 1997 at 11:44:05 (PDT)
I am B. Also, "Rocky Rococco" and a foundling member of the Firesign Theatre who wrote in "I Think We're All Bozos on this Bus": "In the beginning there was this turtle..." Now I'm glad to know what happened BEFORE the beginning. I also recommend a boo k called "Flight" by Vanna Bonta. And I highly recommend Quinn's works. For more from this "B-eing" visit the Planet Proctor Website. And thanks...
Phil Proctor <>
Beverly Hills, CA USA - Friday, May 23, 1997 at 14:57:38 (PDT)
I just came across this long and suggestive paper which I think will interest many readers of "Ishmael" and "The Story of B." EXPANDING OUR WORLDVIEW TO OTHER DIMENSIONS Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D. Suecia 589, Cusco, Peru e-mail: For: When Cosmic Cultures Meet Conference Washington D.C. May 27-29 1995 A sample: "It is of the utmost importance, from a number of perspectives, for us to combat our own prejudices in believing western science to be the only, or the most superior, science of all human cultures. For western science is a newcomer on the world scene, and an upstart newcomer to boot. In its immaturity, however brilliant, it has lacked even the wisdom to ensure that the basis of human life is conserved, putting into question whether the destructive tech nological culture it has spawned can be legitimately considered an intelligent culture." At one point she quotes from Nicolas Aguilar Sayritupac's prologue to "Genesis de la Cultura Andina" (Sahtouris' translation): "I know a little of the customs of the men who come from the place where the Sun puts itself down, and their mentality is as confused as a tangled ball of yarn as day by day they become more entangled without relief... The human being of the West has ab andoned being human and has turned himself into an individual: man, woman, child, elder, separate; community has died in them, the "ayllu"-- the essential unity of humanity. The existence of Western people and society has been destroyed by their egoism."
Tom Carey <>
Norcross, GA USA - Thursday, May 22, 1997 at 21:24:47 (PDT)
ISHMAEL was a gift. From whom? The giver. Who is the "giver?" Maybe a "Leaver." Is there a difference? Could "B."
D. Jason Slone <>
Columbus, OH USA - Thursday, May 22, 1997 at 20:27:39 (PDT)
{ I've read " Ishmael", "Providence" and "The story of B" and loved them very much. The only thing that bothers me is how to take responsibility for our past in order to get free of it. I know from my work, (teaching people responsibility in their p ersonal lives), that fighting the past is fighting with ourselves, thus leads to its repetition. I believe it's not different for the whole of our species. We can't change our past because it doesn't exist. What does exist are the memories of our pas t. We can't change our own memories. What we're all trying to do is to change their results in the present, without taking responsibility for them. The most common way is by repressing the memories of the past: This is The Great Forgetting, on persona l level and on our species level. The human "knowledge" or rather, the representation of it, is made of symbols, words, which are not the real knowledge. The real knowledge is in Life itself, like any other species. We forgot all this and are identifying ourselves with the language, unique to us, but symbolic, not being connected to the real experience, but through agreement only. The words are binary-logic symbols, which are exclusive to each other. This apparent separation is, in my opinion, our main problem, because: "The universe is all of a piece, Jared" as said B. It's not about "good or evil" it's about "good and evil". It's not Takers or Leavers, but both together. The logical separation that is basic to our knowledge is at the source of al l this. These are the real "bars of our cage". The misunderstanding of the Genesis' "Fall" story, which is, as I read it, a warning, was and is misinterpreted by its apparent story. The story is about Responsibility for the whole, which is rejected by Ad am and Eve (After eating the "forbidden fruit" They accuse each other and finally the "snake".) Until we wont take it, we'll not survive. Ishmael and story of B are wonderful alarm signs, but neither does show the real "bars" of our cage. For 15 years I'm dealing with this problem and educating people how to take responsibility for the whole. The interest of individuals with their own well-being is not against responsibility for the whole, actually it's the same. We are hypnotized by our verbal know ledge, which are signs only of the real knowledge in life. Here and now nothing's "separated", it's all of one piece. The illusion of separation is in the signs, the symbols, of knowledge. As long as the knowledge is transferred experientially from actu al life, as Leaver's knowledge, it's real. Once it becomes logical signs representing it, the gap between the signs and the experience itself is widening very quickly, until its totally disconnected. This is the Great Forgetting. A Remembering through the signs alone, without the experience of it, is just another idea against the others, it doesn't work, even if they become a vision that leads to a successful "revolution", like did all other revolutions, including the "agrarian". In the end it's always d eadly. Responsibility is to be taught to our children and to ourselves. I know that the intentions are "good", they always are. But they're not enough. Most of our disasters started with "good intentions" of "controlling" the "unwanted", but, paradoxica lly, reinforcing it. At the beginning the "frog's water" feels wonderful every time a new "ideological vision" starts to heat up. I believe that D.Q's intentions are not to be right and to create a new "religion" with text books, that sooner or later w ill and must become "holy scriptures", if there's no real, Life-Experience connected to them. We can not go back to our past and transfer our life experience as do the Leavers, always connected to Life itself. What we can do is to reeducate ourselves and our children to Responsibility for the whole. This is how I see the only way, except the pragmatic programs, to free ourselves from our deadly grip with our lives in order to save them and the world. What we need is a huge cooperation, which must incl ude an education for Responsibility for the Whole, including our knowledge, and soon, very soon. (Responsibility is not the same as "responsibility" perceived by "takers": "duty", "must", "burden", "guilt" or any other form of "sacrifice" of our personal lives to "save the world"; all these are just different names for the same "totalitarian control".) Finally I want to add a small technical comment to Ishmael's Time diagram representing Taker's disconnection from the rest of Life. (p.152) It may seem that this is a linear representation of time, but it's not. 10000 years are only 0.0033% of 3000000 years, so it should be so close to 2000 A.D. as not differenciated from it at all. This means that the price for the violation of Law of Life, seen so vividly today, are not a "long time" accumulation. Actually it happened a fraction of a second ago in our development time, and will come to its final "full delivery" in another fraction of a fraction of second, which is soon, very soon... Vladek.
Vladek Dobrzan <>
Tel-Aviv, Israel - Thursday, May 22, 1997 at 19:40:58 (PDT)
"we can look at the ecosystems of the world like a clock. a clock is made up of a number of different gears and wheels , some larger than others and some not as important as others. but they all work together to allow the whole to run smoothly. in the end however , every piece of the clock is equally important to the continuation of the clock working , which is to say that if someone stops even the smallest gear or wheel the entire clock will also stop. i'm afraid to say that that is exactly what we ( humans ) have already done to these biosphere. and we are beginning to see the clock stopping , it is only because of the size of this planet that it is stopping so slowly." james butler.
neil chambers <>
clemson, s.c. USA - Thursday, May 22, 1997 at 13:37:55 (PDT)
Opening the minds of the closed-minded is a terribly hard task to accomplish, I myself am not close-minded (or at least I like to think so). But the time has come to become what we were destined to become in the first place, just another animal in the cycle of life on this planet. We have overstepped our bounds a million fold, and it is time to change what we have done before it is too late. Daniel Quinn is the only person that I have seen sum up entirely the way this culture completely destroyed ev erything in its path on its way to do what we thought was right, whch was to conquer the planet. I feel almost naive that I didn't bother to make these connections before, but now that they have been pointed out, it is pathetically obvious that I was bl inded before. I am anxiously awaiting the sequel to Ishmael, as I know many others are as well. For the time being I will merely do what I have been doing all along, spreading the word and trying to convey the message. Most people I get to read, or who I talk to, can see so clearly after they look past everything that we as a culture forgot ever happened. In my opinion Daniel Quinn is the start of something big, and its more yrgent now then it has ever been before, we do not need salvation from this planet, this planet needs salvation from us. Thank you deeply for the revelations that you have let me see, and I hope others see as well before its too late. I will cease my rambling, but again, thank you.
Ken Sherr <>
Lancaster, PA USA - Wednesday, May 21, 1997 at 11:24:55 (PDT)
Yeah, thanks for the test... I was wondering if the page was working!!. Anyway, I'll post something because no one has in like 4 or 5 days..hmm.. Well, I would like to ask all those who wish to contact others "B", to please write me.. I would love to t alk about issuses and Ideas raised in the book, and maybe we can start to form our new please write...I just got a book by another B in the mail.... books title is "Designing the new world".. Looks like a good read. Its hopeful to see others using whatever resources they can to help initiate change.... well, everybody, lets keep our eyes on the prize(whatever it may be for each individual), and keep the ball rollin....and again, please write, I'd be glad to hear from you!!... Bye for now!
Kurt Finguerra <>
Bend, Or USA - Monday, May 19, 1997 at 21:38:48 (PDT)
Just a test...
Webmaster <>
Houston, TX USA - Monday, May 19, 1997 at 21:06:24 (PDT)
I've just finished the book, but I have not had enough time to think about all the ramifications yet. I'll comment later when I've digested it more.
Dr. Karen F. Frasier-Scott <>
Houston, TX USA - Thursday, May 15, 1997 at 19:44:56 (PDT)
The story like Ishmael is a very important teaching device. The principles of the story need to be spread far, wide, and quickly. We at Genesis II would be happy to link up physically or virtually with anyone else in Costa Rica. We are willing to ta ke responsibility and are willing to make this happen. Steve & Paula Friedman. APDO 655, 7.050 Cartago Costa Rica, Central America Fax: (506) 551-0070 Phone (506) 381-0739
Steve Friedman <>
Cartago, x Costa Rica - Wednesday, May 14, 1997 at 11:21:10 (PDT)
The Story of B is incredible! No other book has ever made me think as much as this one has. I think that I have always had the Leaver "bug" in me, but I could never put my finger on it. Daniel nailed it right on the head. Now the question is, "Where do I go from here?" There is a long road ahead for me now. I have much to think through and figure out, but I can now say that I'm much further ahead thanks to Daniel Quinn!
Josh Sager <>
Marlton, NJ USA - Wednesday, May 14, 1997 at 07:08:31 (PDT)