The Ishmael Guestbook Archives: 20 October - 8 November 1997

Sent my comments to the address in the book.
Tay Smith Halas <>
Lakeland, FL USA - Saturday, November 08, 1997 at 13:31:41 (PST)
I just finished My Ishmael, and The Afterlife. . .
Once again, I am thrown into the land of deep thinking, as I attempt to make the Mural expand. Are there anymore hidden teachings? Is there another tale about another Charles Atterly or Alan? I wouldn't doubt it.
I only suggest that The Afterlife. . . be cleared up for the rest of us. Im assuming that it is an abstract representation of life as a Leaver, but then again. . .
I hope to hear from anyone! ANYONE! Lets get this message taught!

philip <>
Newark, NJ USA - Saturday, November 08, 1997 at 08:50:40 (PST)
Thank you for putting into words what I have always felt. I tried to explain to people around me but was treated as a freak, as different. Soon I just fell silent. I have led a simple quiet life, not "buying" into all that was being sold to me. Raised my 4 children that way. Now I am still silent, but in a different way. I buy a copy of the book and pass it on to someone who is looking for a revelation. So far I have bought 12 books and passed it on. I plan to buy many more for each person I meet and is interested. I am looking forward to My Ishmael. I proably will be spending a lot more money passing that one on! Just my little way of waking people up in my little corner of the world.
Maria H Bielanski <>
Sparta, Wi USA - Saturday, November 08, 1997 at 07:25:22 (PST)
Incredible!! What I want to see in print.. very thought provoking..easy reading story...not one person that I've shared my book with, has been disappointed,either... gave a copy to my grandson just a couple weeks ago for his birthday...said it was the best present he'd received (25 years old.) Really enjoy the presentation of your pages. Can't wait to read "My Ishmael!"
Patricia Davis <>
Mansfield,, PA USA - Saturday, November 08, 1997 at 06:15:23 (PST)
I read Ishmael in one weekend and then tried to find someone, anyone to talk to about this book. Then, I read B. (Not in one weekend but over several weeks.) After B, I re-read Illusions - The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah and could still not walk through walls. I know others have tried it and I know we have a LONG way to go. Is there anyone else out there who is as exited and, scared, and confused as I am? I read a lot and work very hard to not "messiahify" these works or their authors. I know the only truth I need is within me and I continue to work at finding this truth.
Karen <>
Rochester, MN USA - Friday, November 07, 1997 at 20:35:45 (PST)
Anything I could say has already been said here, but I'll say some of it anyway. Thank you Mr Quinn for a life altering experience. I just recieved "My Ishmael" from moments ago (having already read "Ishmael" and "The Story Of B") and can't wait to begin reading.

I'd love to have e-mail discussions with any Quinn readers about his work and ideas.

Let it "B"
(hmm...maybe that's what the Beatles were talking about)


Brad Boesen <>
Lincoln, NE USA - Friday, November 07, 1997 at 10:52:00 (PST)
I read Ishmael for a class on Treatment Populations. I'm currently enrolled in the Substance Abuse Program at Erie Community College in Buffalo, NY.
Michael Schall <>
Buffalo, NY USA - Thursday, November 06, 1997 at 07:00:12 (PST)
Teaching is not a profession. I can't believe it's taken so long to realize that. Ishmael isn't a teacher by trade. He doesn't get paid to teach, nor is he certified by some state agency ensuring that he is "competent" to teach. (Read: competent to teach what the certifying agency deems appropriate.)

What a relief to know that it's not necessary to become a professional teacher in order to share new ideas.

Jamie Myxter <>
Seattle, Wa USA - Wednesday, November 05, 1997 at 17:00:38 (PST)
I read "Ishmael" for Professor Gordon Fellman's Sociology class, "War and Possibilities of Peace" at Brandeis University. I have recommended it to everyone I know.
Tanya Tamarkin <>
Waltham, MA USA - Wednesday, November 05, 1997 at 15:43:07 (PST)
Ishmael and Story of B have given me renewed hope for our future. Would like to contact others in San Francisco Bay Area.
Sydney J. Reuben <>
Menlo Park, CA USA - Tuesday, November 04, 1997 at 17:16:45 (PST)
i often neglect this site because i'm in the there anyone else who feels the two (ishmael reactions and b reactions) should be combined to one listing???

willyum <>
plano, tx USA - Monday, November 03, 1997 at 19:33:50 (PST)
I´m delighted to see the numbers of europeans increase in this book! Anyone interested in a continental christmas meeting or something? How you wanna overcome takerism if don´t start celebrating life?

Alex <>
Hannover, Germany - Monday, November 03, 1997 at 17:00:49 (PST)
I may be a young one (17)...but I have been waiting for this book all of my life. More, though, I have been waiting for this PURPOSE. I am willing to give up my whole life for the cause of 'saving the world'...but first I have to figure out HOW. (what i really want to do is go join the 'primitives' and live happily ever after) This has been consuming my thoughts constantly. I am searching for ways to integrate our livestyle into the laws of nature. I think I need to read the book a few more times and do a little experimenting and theorizing of my own. I have always been told I was born in the wrong generation. (I should have been a hippie) This is the cause that I foresee to become my in-the-spirit-of-the-hippies-life-goal. I am dying for someone to talk to about this book and the ideas that it holds. I am searching the bible, making my parents and friends read it, and I would appreciate any inspiration or even discouragement from anyone who cares about the future of it all. I love you Ishmael...God bless you Daniel Quinn.
emily <>
Cody, NE USA - Monday, November 03, 1997 at 15:43:28 (PST)
I have always been uncomfortable as a taker in a taker culture. Now I understand who we think we are and why.

The trick will be to become a real force for self-recognition and change.

I'm going to start by giving the boojk to others and asking for discussion on our Quaker meeting and at other gatherings.

Brian Paddock <>
Cookeville, TN USA - Monday, November 03, 1997 at 14:41:28 (PST)
An Open Letter:

I recently received the latest copy of "The Ishmael Update 1997". First, I just want to thank Daniel and Rennie Quinn, as well as Dr. Alan Thornhill and Jeanine Wilder for all the work you are doing to keep us informed and to
encourage us not to "drop the ball" this time.

Secondly I am really excited about the proposed organization "FuturePositive/
Foundation for a New Worldview" which you briefly mentioned in the newsletter.
I am sure that you will receive many letters offering support and encouragement and I just wanted to add my voice to that group. I realize that there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of groups and organizations
around the world that have the express purpose of bringing about social and cultural change. Many of them have been born out of the ideas that Daniel Quinn first presented in Ishmael.

However, I can't help but believe that an organization that has Daniel's direct support will help to crystallize the process of cultural transformation even moreso, and perhaps even accelerate it. Daniel, our reluctant hero, stands like a beacon before the rest of us, summoning us to follow him into a new world. I offer my support and assistance in this new project in whatever
way you see fit and in the meantime I will continue onward with my own efforts to promote "changed minds" in the people with whom I come in daily contact.

Thank you, Daniel, for your continuing efforts in trying to help us to see the truth.

John Austin

John Austin <>
Worcester, MA USA - Monday, November 03, 1997 at 09:15:57 (PST)
ishmael changed my life. it is the most important book i have EVER read.
shannon merl <>
kc, mo unknown :P - Sunday, November 02, 1997 at 19:28:25 (PST)
Ishmael lives! It's been four years since I first read Ishmael. Today I took the opportunity to buy a copy of "My Ishmael", and to hear Danirl . The book is not due out until Nov,11 but he had a signing at the Texas Book Festival.
For those of you asking for "what to do", may I suggest something really naive and say smile at a stranger, talk to God/Mother/Father/Spirit (pray freehand), and enjoy yourself and one another. For me this seems to work more and more as I listen /learn talk etc.

Humphrey-Levi' Pleshe <>
TX, USA - Sunday, November 02, 1997 at 16:53:11 (PST)
My friend here
says she just
wanted to walk
into the woods
after she read
the book - eat
or be eaten.
she's still
here, and
asking what's
for dinner. We
do what we can,
but my world
view will never
ever be the
same again.

Cris Stormfox <>
Greenfield, MA USA - Sunday, November 02, 1997 at 13:26:31 (PST)
I think that Ishmael is a very deep and inspiring novel that every reader should look at. It inspired me and made me think about what we are doing to our enviroment. This is, without a doubt, my favorite book. The Story of B is my second.
Jimmy Joe Johnson <Johnson@Yahoo. com>
Branson, MO USA - Sunday, November 02, 1997 at 13:05:54 (PST)
I am a student in the University of Colorado's President's Leadership Class. We have been studying the earth and its most pressing problems, including overpopulation, environmental destruction, and violence. I knew that the problems were real and urgent, but they also seemed impossible to truly understand. "Ishmael" gave a simple, solid, unifying theory on why the planet is doing so poorly, giving me a new perspective on which I can base my actions and principles. I now understand the root of the problem and feel like the human race is not hopeless.
Aaron Behr <>
Boulder, CO USA - Saturday, November 01, 1997 at 19:53:45 (PST)
i think we ARE different from animals, but that isn't the problem. the problem is that people think that gives them a special set of rights instead of a special set of responsibilities..
gatita <>
provo, ut USA - Saturday, November 01, 1997 at 16:45:32 (PST)
The explanation of Genesis may be the first really new idea I have heard in a long, long time!
Gerald Whelan, MD <>
Philadelphia, PA USA - Saturday, November 01, 1997 at 10:44:43 (PST)
I am a teacher. My students are beginning to read Ishmael this week. I would like them to learn that it is possible to save the world. If even one of them does, then I will consider this assignment to be a success.
k. sinclair whitaker <>
Eastpointe, MI USA - Saturday, November 01, 1997 at 10:17:28 (PST)
I sensed there was another story to live. It was necessary to become fully aware of the one I was burdened with before I could let it go. Ishmael has been an intregal part of finding the 'bars of the cage' in order to bring about its destruction. Th e unfolding of the new story is ahead - it is what now makes up the fascination of existence.
Ken Atwood <>
Highlands Ranch , Co USA - Friday, October 31, 1997 at 18:59:21 (PST)
I am quite thrilled to see that Ishmael is alive and kicking better than ever. Dan certainly deserves it. B was great also. Sometimes I feel that I'd like to address large groups and teach B but frankly I truly believe that I and anyone esle that tried it would be killed. Great world we live in. More later. Don Flaks
Don Flaks <>
Bedford, NY USA - Friday, October 31, 1997 at 17:58:10 (PST)
The World needs not to be saved, it has lasted much greater adversaries than human beings, It is human beings themselves who need to be saved. It is human habits that need to be reckonned with.
Michael Cummings Duffy <>
St. Louis, MMMo USA - Friday, October 31, 1997 at 12:36:48 (PST)
I am glad to find this site. People get annoyed with me when I am in an intelectual conversation and constantly bring up the differences between people and animals. Their response is normally along the lines of "we are different then animals."

Isn't that the problem?

Kevin Croke <>
Beloit, WI USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 22:43:18 (PST)
story leaves one wondering about that bit of hidden knowledge, just as is referred to within itself.. i think that mankind's responsibility to the world is 'dominion' as a steward to care for it.. the world is a garden, but i believe it WAS created f or mankind by the gods ~as he is a god in embryo with godlike potetial~, but not in the way he has abused it and exercised his dominion unrighteously.

gatita <>
provo, ut USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 19:10:27 (PST)
Ishamel and B have had a profound effect on the way that I view our existance on this planet. Sadly I think that currently it is beyond the wit of man to do anything about the problems we face. The Taker culture has such a strong hold on our lives that it is going to take disaster of global proportions to shake us out of our complacency.
Simon Fairclough <>
Christchurch, Great Britain - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 15:12:20 (PST)
Ishmael is the most fantastic book that I have ever read! Like the quotation on the cover, "There are now two kinds of books, those that I read before Ishmael, and those I have read after."
Joseph Reichlin <>
Reno, NV USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 10:33:45 (PST)
Have been a fan since Ishmael, then "B". Great work! keep it up!
Have a small group of friends trying to learn to be "leavers" & meeting monthly for discussion.

Don Smith <>
Piermont, NH USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 08:52:56 (PST)
I homeschool, I would be a sophmore in highschool this year. My dad recommended that I read Ishmael so I did. During the book, my mind really opened up, I really started thinking about CAPTIVITY. I would suggest reading this book to everybody so each person can more clearly see where they are and where they want to be.
Will we save the world?

Ashley <>
MA USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 07:59:32 (PST)
I read both Ishmael and The Story of B and have recommended both to my children and many friends. I found that nothing I had ever read opened up or expanded my mind like these two books. I am anxiously awaiting My Ishmael, which I was told is due out in December. I find myself closer to life's pulse and more able to relate to other living things; I feel a kinder person and more accepting and understanding of myself and others. If these books simply left readers with this impression - we'd be close r to the leaver society.
Anne Grbic <>
New Berlin, WI USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 07:25:01 (PST)
It has been a while since I read "Ishmael"...
It has helped me to refocus on the things I believed in in the 60's and 70's. Maybe we can make a difference! I look forward to reading "My Ishmael".

Ron Edins <>
Falls Church, VA USA - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 07:16:00 (PST)
We read Ishmael at school, and I love it! There I have things I've thought of and more (a lot more).
Sofia Söderberg <>
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN - Thursday, October 30, 1997 at 05:23:36 (PST)
ISHMAEL - what a mind opening experience.
A definite intelligence with satisfying words. A must read for everyone - the Takers
and the Leavers.

Jaime Paschal <>
Wilmington, NC USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 18:28:53 (PST)
Interesting looking maybe i will read it someday soon Jaime is just finishing that book.
Sean Collins <>
Wilmington, NC USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 18:24:40 (PST)
Interesting looking maybe i will read it someday soon Jaime is just finishing that book.
Sean Collins <>
Wilmington, NC USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 18:24:33 (PST)
This book can help us to see things in a way which has been overshadowed by culture. We must abandon Babylon and find a new path toward cultural enlightenment.
Jerrold A. Hoel <>
Kokomo, IN USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 17:33:40 (PST)
I just have to say that before reading this
book, I knew the world needed something done,
but I didn't know just what. Now that I have
read this wondeful book, not only do I know
what I can do, but it totally changed my
outlook on life.

As a shaman of the earth, I just have to say: "Thank you from the
bottom of my heart, Daniel. Because of your
book, the world has a chance. Thank you."

Matthew D. Cherry <>
Reed City, MI USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 14:00:30 (PST)
I have really enjoyed this book. I am however having trouble getting started doing a paper from a sociological perspective. There is such a wide view of areas that I could do, although I find myself veering off into another angle. If you have any su ggestions, seeing as you wrote this book so exquisitely, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you so very much.

Christina Hines <>
Woodville, FL USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 07:32:33 (PST)
Right on, Daniel,
I recommend my own books for additional reading: "The Geography of Nowhere" (1993) and "Home From Nowhere" (1996) (Both Simon & Schuster)

James Howard Kunstler <>
Saratoga Springs, NY USA - Wednesday, October 29, 1997 at 07:07:59 (PST)
I left out an important part of the learning process. That is, get to know the world we wish to save, make it real, make it personal. Saving an abstraction then becomes saving a loved one, many loved ones, and from this point, you CANNOT GO BACK. Jim Demko <>
etersburg, AK USA - Tuesday, October 28, 1997 at 16:48:25 (PST)
"Never doubt that a small group of dedicated individuals can change the world, indeed, it's the only thing that ever has" Margeret Mead

A common theme on this page is "wow, but what now". DQ offers his thoughts on this site as well as the B network, I'd like to share mine.

Learn, live what you learn, and spread what you believe.

I. Learn Consider what you have learned from from Ishmael not as an end, but as a begining, a seed that requires nourishing to grow. It is not difficult, once you start your task will take on it's own momentum.

A. Learn how the earth works, localy and systemically. (I highly recomend reading about James lovelocks Gia hypothosis.)

B. Learn how we are working against Gia, global warming, ozone depletion, loss of biodiversity, acid rain, etc. and how our lives fuel the Taker Thunderbolt.

C. Fill the void left by your release from taker religion by remembering your spiritual connections to the web of life. (Deep Ecology by Devall & Sessions and The Book by the late philosopher James Watt are great starting points.)

II. Live it As you begin to learn how you "change the world" it will be obvious what you must do to change it for the better. From my perspective and experience, "voluntary poverty" is both means of limiting consumption and liberating us from the consumpt ion myth and the dehumanizing system that accompanys it.

III. Teach it Your changed beliefs and life will become a lesson to others in itself, but it may also limit you. By adopting a life and behavior outside the taker norm you may loose credibility. On the other hand, teaching the leaver story while living th e taker story will be considered hypocracy or worse. Again, from my perspective and experience, be sincere don't bend your message or your ideals. Those who are willing to learn will follow.

Learning, living, and teaching will all positively feedback and reenforce your evolution and the "quality of your journey. But take Warning: YOU CANNOT GO BACK. Many will admire you, many more will fear or despise you, but this is a small price to pay for becoming a real human being and saving the world.

P.S. I'd like to recommend dozens of books which I have read, enjoyed and learned from, but space is short and part of the joy comes from you own dicoveries.

Jim Demko <>
Petersburg, AK USA - Tuesday, October 28, 1997 at 11:25:08 (PST)
This book has the capability to cause a reader to redefine him/her-self on the premise that every ounce of knowledge we have aquired so far, has been molested by our own species-centric delusion.
Tom Costello <>
Lawrenceville, nj USA - Tuesday, October 28, 1997 at 07:43:06 (PST)
As some one once said "They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Is this why we put our trust so blindly in the hands of those with power?"

Susan <Http://>
Columbus, OH USA - Monday, October 27, 1997 at 15:45:58 (PST)
I read Ishmael over the summer as a reading assingment. I can appriciate the angle that Ishmael is coming from. He takes a realistick look at the world and how it really is. I congradulte Daniel Quinn for writing such a great book. I am going to pu rchase "The Story of B" and "My Ishmael" this November as a birthday present for myself. I encourage all to read this book. It will widen your out-look on life.
Susan Spaulding <>
Columbus, Oh USA - Monday, October 27, 1997 at 15:41:38 (PST)
And so Shines a Good Deed,
In a Weary World..

John Lovelett <john_lovelett @>
Stamford, CT USA - Monday, October 27, 1997 at 05:44:49 (PST)
I think there's a big danger in treating Ishmael as something like a "holy book"(in taker terms), as holy books are always meant to cool down and pacify people, thus securing the status qou. Solution can't be to replace the bible by Ishmael, but to sta rt THINKING YOURSELF. And after thinking enough, ACTING YOURSELF! Ishmael (as I see it) is not meant to give better dreams in some suburbian cookie cut home after a long whatever workday and trouble on highways.
Make a change!

Alex <>
Hannover, Germany - Monday, October 27, 1997 at 05:30:46 (PST)
I am a feshman at Cranbrook Kingswood school in Michigan. We are currently reading Ishmael in our Patterns in Ancient Societies course. It is an interesting book, but I am sure it has not changed my life. I can't honestly say that I will convert my who le way of living to comply with what Ishmael says, but it has brought a new alternative of observing things. Therefore, I am grateful to have read it and be able to analyze in class.
Melissa McCormick <melissa>
Bloomfield Hills, Mi USA - Saturday, October 25, 1997 at 19:15:23 (PDT)
The California state constitution states article 1 -- Declaration of rights section 1 -- ALL PEOPLE ARE BY NATURE FREE AND INDEPENDENT AND HAVE INALIENABLE RIGHTS. Freedom the state
interprets with nouns and adjectives, such as acquiring, possessing , protecting property. This supports the taker society that Mr. Quinn referes to in his thought provoking book. The calif state constitution says you only have limited freedom with respe ct to your limited inalienable rights. For if I'm free by nature then I should be able to hunt and gather at will. Calif state constitutionion teaches the illusion that you're free only when you're TAKING.

Marv Blackman < >
Diamond springs, Ca USA - Saturday, October 25, 1997 at 12:41:27 (PDT)
A friend recommended Ishmael to me. Finally a book seems to have taken many of my private thoughts and put them onto paper. Can't wait to start the next one!
Ben Weinberg <>
Seattle, WA USA - Saturday, October 25, 1997 at 07:40:57 (PDT)
Thanks for writing such an inspiring and insightful book. Although I disagree with most and think the Takers are more content with their lifestyle, Quinn brings forward an interesting perspective on how we live. We all posess the ability to save the wo rld...
Peter Nguyen <>
Columbus, OH USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 20:59:15 (PDT)
Ishmael is a book that my sister told me to read. She told me it was the kind of book that would completely change my view on life. I thought she was exagerating, but I read the book anyway. I was wrong.
Alicia Wittmer <>
Glencoe, Mo USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 11:55:30 (PDT)
Loved the first book looking forward to reading the 2nd. I'm glad you have a web sit!
Howard Peck <>
Pennsburg, Pa USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 08:45:29 (PDT)
I am still staggering, trying to catch my breath...I don't recall being moved by anything the way that this experience has moved me. I just read Ishmael yesterday, and immediately handed it to my 12 year old daughter. I guess it just takes some time to assimilate it, and right now I am thinking "what next?". I had never heard of Ishmael until about a week ago, when it was mentioned on an "unschooling" list (we are unschoolers). I look forward to meeting any of you out there on the "Ishmael List".

Blessings to all...

Trish Hamel <>
Pittsburgh, PA USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 08:41:39 (PDT)
Thanks for the enlightenment!!! I can't wait until the new book comes out.


Jason Voss

Jason Voss <>
Eau Claire, WI USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 21:53:19 (PDT)
I have read "Ishmael" and I only have one problem with it...I do not know how to live in order to stop my taker lifestyle. I am in no way afraid of what sacrifices I have to make (if any), but I am just not sure how to change in order to help prevent h uman, and at our rate, all extinction. I need help. Please email me with at least some thoughts. Ishmael has become my bible. I have already gotten three people to read since I have finished it
about three weeks ago. Please! email me with some suggestions.

Kevin Ryan Martin McNally <>
Platteville, WI USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 15:30:32 (PDT)
This website is da bomb!!!!
Peter Nguyen <>
Columbus, OH USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 07:49:56 (PDT)
I would just like to say that after reading Ishmael just a couple weeks ago, I feel that my life has changed in a big way and the way I think about the world will also be forever changed because of this book. I say "Thank You" to Daniel Quinn for writi ng this book.
Stefanie Jones <>
indiana, pa USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 07:40:38 (PDT)
I found the book "Ishmael" very hard to get into. It also touched on alot of things that I found hard to except. But I except them because they are right. Like when Ishmael says, " Humans put themselves outside of the natural law." His hits the head on the nail. You don't see people eating other people to keep the population down. What you do see is, humans killing animals, driving them to exsistion, so that we, the humans. are not exsist ourselves. This book brings up alot of this stuff and stuff jus t like it. But I want to add one final thing.

We cannot pedal faster to stay up longer. We are falling to out death, because we cannot see the bars on our cell.

bobby <>
stavanger, norway - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 00:02:07 (PDT)
To J. Denko and all others>

I realize after your comment that I did not clearly state myself nor finish what I was setting out to do.

Q, in a nutshell, is identifying man's tragic flaw-- totalitarian agriculture. Mother culture certainly HAS led us into a chaotic spiral, which will ultimately lead to the extinction of mankind unless remarkably dramatic changes are made in individual, s ocietal, and political viewpoints. I do not claim this as a theory. I see it as matter of fact. We all knew that the earth was dying and that populations were going out of control. Q just identified how this mess all started, and offered how we might begin to seek a solution.

What I meant by the theory of Q's teachings is his analysis of Genesis to say that the ancient leavers were aware of the ancient takers destructive capability. And while I realize that Ishmael has a lot more to say than just this, I find it to be the mos t striking aspect of the novel since it sets fire to one of the most frequently read passages in the Bible. My discussions of Ishamel have been aimed at this area, since the notion that we are destroying ourselves has, as you say, been around for centuri es.

I hope that cleared things up.

Unfortunately, I doubt that man will be able to pull out of the spiral. Power and politics are packed into too few bank accounts. In my experience, the older generations are not at all responsive to Q's teachings. And from what I witness in my generati on, we show plenty of passion and interest in solving the problems, and while some of us do go out and tackle mother culture head on, the majority of us are content in 'letting other people fix it.'

What have you done to save your future family and children from mother culture?

C E Olander <>
Ithaca, NY USA - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 20:08:47 (PDT)
I enjoyed the experience I received by reading Ishmael. It was recommended to me by an individual whom I have an unspeakable interest. I feel I have learned a great deal from the book and from this individual. I will continue to recommend the book to all and try and practice what I have taken from the book in real everyday life. I would like to send out my unconditional, friendly love to Amy!!:)--peace, todd
Todd Walker <>
Atlanta, GA USA - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 12:17:57 (PDT)
I love "Ishmael"!!!!

Easily one of the most profound books I've ever read. I grew up Catholic and then was actively Latter-Day Saint for 8 years. How unbelievebly arrogant to suppose that Man is the pinnacle of creation; God's best work! I no longer affiliate with any organiz ed religion. Their messages no longer fit into my new world-view. I need to do what I can to return to the circle of life that includes all life-forms, in order to find a place in the great flow of the Universe. "Man is not alone on this planet." Words to live by. Thank you, Daniel Quinn, and thank you, Ishmael. Something inside me vibrates and hums when I read this book. Beautiful.

Thanks again.

Dan Bergeron <>
Edmonton, AB Canada - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 10:52:16 (PDT)
As I have alerted you already...on successive Mondays (OK, it's not
Monday...I was late...I was distracted...if you only knew!), the Ishmael/Bnetwork websites are
sharing seven never-before seen writings of Daniel Quinn -- excerpts from the November 1 release date novel by DQ published by Bantam Books called, My Ishmael. Excerpts!

Webmaster <>
Houston, TX USA - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 18:22:30 (PDT)
I recently read Ishmael for a school project. I am a sophmore in high school. I found this book very fascinating and truely believe everything that Ishmael was teaching. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for teaching others to believ e this information also ??
Ananda Keefer - Norris <>
Northfield, VT USA - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 17:11:49 (PDT)
Here's site that readers of Ishmael would be interested in...It's devoted to natural philosophy, including the full texts of eco-philosophy classics and many essays about our unity with nature.

From there, you can also access my page devoted to corporate domination of our culture and politics.


Tim DiChiara <>
Durham, NC USA - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 13:15:34 (PDT)
To C.E. Olander (below)

I have often wondered how DQ's stories would take root in those without an adaquate background or context in which to place them and I am not surprised (although disapointed) by your response. It's unfortunate that in the history of movements deep thought s often fail to take root in shallow minds.

Personally, I am offended that you project your naivety upon those who have for decades witnessed and cried out against the mindless momentum of mother culture.
DQ gives us a new story, but not a new "theory". The destructive falicies of this culture have been known for centuries by both its observers and its victims. Ismael and B are only the latest icons for those who oppose this heartless culture of conquest.< br>
You are right not to bend your beliefs based upon one or two books, without pondering those ideas and testing them against other ideas, your own, and the world around you. Were you as critical of Mother Culture University ?

All that we know, and all that we can know is written in the world around us. If you want to know the world, use your own mind and observe it.

Jim Demko <>
Petersburg, AK USA - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 11:08:55 (PDT)
thank you robert for your comments I can't speak as B yet but it seems just as inhumane to sacrifce third world underclasses to malnutrition to service the debt their gvt aquired buying arms to subdue them and take control of their lands. Most culture s that practice human sacrifce find themselves overwhelmed by a still more ruthless conqueror. I am more concerned about the almost universal practice of the enslavement
of captives take in raids (mostly women and children)

Tom Kendall <>
Port Townsend, wa USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 23:59:02 (PDT)
Let's not move to quick here...

After first reading The Book, I was overwhelmed with an intense desire to spread Quinn's word. Now, over a year later, and after a slew of discussion and classes here at my university, I am a bit less apt to do so. Why?

Well people, I think that Ishmael is so revolutionary... so intriguing... so perfect, that it brainwashes us almost instantly and provides us with the long lost truth, so we think. The fact is, Quinn only provides us with theory. It's the same as the th eory of evolution, the theory of GOD, and the theory of everything else. I urge you to place Quinn's writings in perspective! Apply it to YOUR base of knowledge, and don't accept it as a fact of life that has finally been revealed. Don't get me wrong... I think that Q has opened a wonderfully new area of exploration. I just hate to see people get caught in the whirlwind of Q's writings and abandon the beliefs that they so diligently upheld just a day before.

C E Olander <>
Ithaca, NY USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 22:55:25 (PDT)
thank you
Derek Gelinas <>
Hooksett, NH USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 15:18:38 (PDT)
Dear Ishmaelians,
This book should be required reading in every high school around the world. People need to hear this in order to be informed and make rational decisions about the future. I am left with the feeling of perplexity. I know what needs to be done, however, I have no idea how to take the steps in order to get it done. Feel free to respond with any additional readings or thoughts you may have on the subject.

Jeanette <>
Portland, OR USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 14:09:39 (PDT)
I found "Ishmael" to be very enlightening. I am (used to be) one of those takers who believed that the current ways were the right ways, but I have never felt it necessary to force others to do things the way I prefer to do them. I do believe there a re some things that "leaver" civilizations do that I do not agree with, such as canabalism and religious sacrifice. I also understand that there are traditions and other reasons which have led to these practices, but I have a hard time believing that the re could be any valid reason for such behavior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if we lived as the "leavers" do and did before the "takers" began their revolution, there would still be some things that people would feel are wrong to allow. I support the views and message of this book whole-heartedly, however, and I feel that every man, woman, and child (of reasoning age) should be introduced to its ideas. I love the outdoors, and it pains me to think of all of the damage our civilization ha s inflicted on it over the years of our existance as "takers." I am very curious to hear how you would approach the concerns of people, such as myself, who feel that some very basic and humane laws of nature should be enforced even in a "leaver" civiliza tion. If we are supposed to let people live as they want to live and not force our ideas on them, how will we ensure freedom, justice, and equality for all living creatures? Or would we? Do you consider punishment for crimes (meaning crimes against man or nature) to be a characteristic of "leavers" or "takers" or both?----Respectfully, Robert E. Roscoe----

Robert E. Roscoe <>
Kingsville, TX USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 08:31:48 (PDT)