The Ishmael Guestbook Archives: 25 December - 31 January 1998

Keep it up
Jaswinder S. Sandhu <>
Mississauga, Ont. Canada - Saturday, January 31, 1998 at 23:38:35 (PST)
We couldn't put it down. We are Parks and Outdoor
Recreation students at college and will be working
as canoe, kayak, snowshoe, etc guides after
We are doing what we think is right for now: recommending
the book to everyone and anyone. I plan on making up
little business-type cards that say simply, "Read Ishmael"
to get the point across to anyone who doen't understand
this way of thinking yet.
This is the most influencial book we've ever read.
We just got My Ishmael too. Thank you Daniel Quinn
Finally someone put all of this down on paper instead of
just thinking about it! I'm glad to see these web pages
filled with people's concerns and solutions to help them
teach people this way of's about time

S. Lee and S. Roesch <>
Sault Ste. Marie, ON CAN - Saturday, January 31, 1998 at 18:36:49 (PST)
Thank you and all my other spiritual brothers
& sisters who are commited to their
rememberance of your life's task and for
acting on it. Commited to doing my small
part to save the world,

Maria F. Rendon

Maria F. Rendon <>
Oakland, CA USA - Saturday, January 31, 1998 at 10:20:14 (PST)
I have visited this site at the suggestion of my son Jake. I haven't read Ishmael yet but at Jake's suggestion and after reading the moments and letters posted to this site I will be sure to read all the books. The anticipation is building. I hope not to be disappointed and will post further notes.
Bruce Bennett <>
Sioux Narrows, On Canada - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 18:28:26 (PST)
I was wondering if there was some type of comunication link between readers.
Matt Gilio-Tenan <>
rocklin, ca USA - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 14:06:42 (PST)
I have read through the comments on this site and am very encouraged by the fact that adults are getting involved in this "movement" of ideas. "What?" you say... "adults?" I know that most people would feel more encouraged by seeing that teens and young adults are getting involved, but as a 16 year-old, it has been my experience that youth who read Ishmael, the Story of B and My Ishmael have no trouble accepting Daniel Quinn's ideas, whereas adults are more likely to understand but not believe the concepts.

Last year a friend of mine introduced me to Daniel Quinn. I read Ishmael and thought that I was going to puke everytime I set foot on my school campus. In order to ease myself of the anger and confusion I felt, I introduced other students and teachers to Daniel Quinn. Soon, with my help and my friends' help, a whole section of my school was buzzing with words like "takers" and "leavers." My International Studies class because an Ishmael discussion period. I was dissapointed to find, however, that the teachers who read the book did not find it as interesting or important. My favorite teacher, a humanities teacher who has a Ph.D. in philosophy, only bothered to skim Ishmael. When I asked him what he thought, his response was simply, "It's not the end all be all." That was it. This from a man who could speak forever on the value of Plato's republic and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Even my own mother hasn't bothered to finish the novel. The only adult I know who truly appreciates Daniel Quinn was my International Studies teacher. She was a wonderful woman who had previously spent a few years living with a leaver community in Nepal. Perhaps that is why she was able to accept these ideas after living with takers for 30 some years.

Thank you to Daniel Quinn for Ishmael, the Story of B and My Ishmael. And thank you for understanding in My Ishmael the importance of teaching these ideas to the next generation. We are the ones who will continue the revolution into the 21st century, but we can not do so with the help of the older generation. Thank you to everyone who has read these books and bothered to remember after finsishing. It takes a lot of effort to stop listening to Mother Culture. Especially when you've been listening to her for over 25 years.

Katie B. <>
Bellevue, WA USA - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 11:58:14 (PST)
I really enjoyed this book. It really got me thinking about a lot of things. I have read all the Isn=mael books and have enjoyed them all.
nbeaver <>
Bethel, AK USA - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 10:38:44 (PST)
reading Ishmael was a watershed for me, confirming and taking farther many conclusions I was on my way to in my studies.

I think a crucial piece in understanding the "Fall", the advent of totalitarian takers, is the CAUSE of the Great Forgetting. I don't think the Boiling Frog is what happened at all. And the attitude of BLAME towards the Takers, I believe, will never Change enough Minds, which is of course what needs to happen.

There is a very obvious set of causes for the Great Forgetting. A salient feature of all slavery is Natal Alienation-- that is, ensuring that those enslaved are STRIPPED completely of their own identity, of their sense of belonging and security, and even of any confidence in the memory of what was. When slaves rebel, or are freed, they do not go back to being the Leavers their ancestors were, because they CANNOT-- they have no way to, and no model to look at, no resources to draw upon. Instead, they become the worst takers of all- because of the fear and insecurity caused by that trauma, which lasts for generations. Any American is well aware of the consequences of slavery, generations after the fact.

PEOPLE BECAME TAKERS because of the traumas they went through. The distinguishing characteristic of Takers is that they believe that they MUST CONTROL THE ENVIRONMENT. This comes from fear, not from a desire to make things a little easier-- that's buying into the Taker myths of the beginnings of civilization.
THe earliest agriculturalist societies, As seen in Chalice & the Blade, weren't Takers by the truest definition; theirs was an experiment. But it's after the first large-scale massacres and enslavements (the Kurgan invasions or WHATEVER- it doesn't matter which), by which mechanism millions have been FORCED TO FORGET, having had their identities, their practical animist wisdom, their SOULS even, ripped from their ownership, they and their children, and their children's children who eventually became US.

We need to understand and accept this, so that we can reach out to the Takers of our world with Forgiveness, not condemnation.

Matthew Mausner <>
Brooklyn, NY USA - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 08:51:32 (PST)
Thank You, Daniel Quinn. Your writings changed my life and gave it purpose. For years I felt like I didn't fit in and something as not quite right with my life. When I read Ishmael, it put words to all my frustrations with our culture. I feel trapped! Now I know why and I can do my small part to change the vision of our culture.
Jane White <>
State College, PA USA - Friday, January 30, 1998 at 06:16:11 (PST)
I have purchased and read both "Ishmael" and "The Story of B." Both contain many of the most fascinating ideas I have encountered in recent memory. Looking forward to reading Dan's latest sequel. Will try to contact to asscertain his availability to appear as a speaker at one of the Univ. of Tenn. "Issues"
events. Please supply his snail mail/ e-mail

albert wiberley <>
alcoa, tn USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 19:07:56 (PST)
I would like to say thanks to Daniel Quinn for sharing his tale with me. It is not often the I read something more than once, however, Ishmael has become a travelling companion. Each time I sit with it I find something I missed the time before.
As student of medicine I am constantly at odds with "ethical" duty, established by our culture, and "truly" natural processes. Ishmael has helped me find a middle ground.

Curby D. Jenkins <cjenkins>
Claremont, CA USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 18:03:37 (PST)
To SAkramer down there, i'm already working on starting up a listing of those local discussion groups. :) If you want to find other contacts in your area, post/search

If you then want to start up a local discussion SIG with some of those people, contact me and I will list you.

Mitake Oyasin!


"Coyote-ka" <>
currently Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 15:57:38 (PST)
Thank you daniel quinn for articulating what I have always felt but have been unable to communicate. I've read comments by others who say that they feel alone after reading ISMAEL because those around them fail to see things in the same way. I know how they feel, but in a way that is how I have always felt even though I could not quite put it into words. Through Quinn's books and also this web site I now feel much less alone. This at least is a move in the right direction. Slowly, and little by little I hope to come into contact with more like minded people.

april dawson <79044@UDEL.EDU>
Newark, De USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 15:08:26 (PST)
Although I believe in what Quinn has to say about our Culture and its problems, I had a difficult time reading this book. I have had this same train of thought now for almost 10 years, and find it difficult to be spoken down to when I am not of this mindset that the story teller is in.
Everytime the Gorilla speaks, it is if as though it were speaking to an infant that has no clue. Before Ishmael became popular, I too was trying to explain many of these same concepts to people around me, but they thought I was just some punk radical with no grounding, then this book comes out, speaking to these same people as if they were idiots, and they suck it up as if it were the giver of life.
I find it very disconcerting that people of today, while wanting to live a spiritualy holistic path, want to have it spoon fed to them, just like Religion used to be 500 years ago.
I applaud Mr. Quinn for his understanding of todays problems, but I have to ask him, "Why treat us like idiots?"

J. Steven Porter <>
Arcata, CA USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 12:56:24 (PST)
I humbly offer this to Daniel Quinn and his adherents. His works inspire much of what I write. I have more to say, but seek opinions, criticisms and comments. Respond if you will to

Everything has changed. Our culture has been ill for generations, and is dying a slow death. Our vision has faded. Technology cannot solve our problems, it may only be able to facilitate our death, or perhaps engender our salvation as a race. As individuals, salvation is not possible simply because we are already saved. But as a culture we must change or die.

Is it possible to create a culture? I think I have wanted to ask that question for a long time but have been unable to articulate it. There it is. To be.

Is it possible to write a culture, to speak a culture, or to paint one? Maybe culture is a song, maybe more.

A song is written or spoken, and sung. Born by words or sound, conceived in thought, and lived in the singing. Is that what Mcluhan meant when he said that the medium is the message? If so then the conception is an act of participation. It simply requires more than one person, one creator. The conception requires a relationship.

The birth is a struggle, beginning with a period of incubation and ubiquitous or universal or archetypal change. This change will follow a pattern of chaos paralleled by nature, embued with the wisdom of mothers past. Order will evolve from the boiling waters of change. And this order will be painful beyond knowing, beyond comprehension. This order will become the song and with it will come a joy that glows from within the hearts of its creators. A joy that connects the song to its conception only long enough to be remembered and then the cord is cut, the creators stand apart from the song as it begins to sing itself into life, to breathe steadily and rhythmically, to grow. The song will eventually become a part of the singer - it will touch singers in unpredictable, nebulous ways and will follow a pattern of chaos as more singers absorb it. No song can touch every singer. Many songs touch many singers and infinite songs touch infinite singers. Each song grows differently and although in its conception and birth it is fundamentally indistinguishable from the universal/other songs, it will eventually manifest itself as a unique representation of all previous and existent culturesong. The songs will be like an infinite number of puzzles that are assembled without the builders knowing what the final result will or should be. Each puzzle is formed of the same pieces, but put together differently by people ignorant of the outcome, or with different views of the outcome. Some will see an elephant with no trunk; others will see an elephant with two tails. Some will see an elephant that is imperfect in its wholeness, but one that will survive and interact and evolve and procreate. They will envision something, a system, which ensures its own existence by naturally selecting successful attributes and habits.

Back to the song. It can die. So can the singer. But some songs can perpetuate themselves by evolving attuned to their surroundings. Only those songs growing outside of the mysterious pattern of chaos an ultimately die, and they simply die with the last of their singers when new songs, songs more appropriate to, or in rhythm with, the boiling ocean of change are accepted to replace the old songs.

In fact, the song must die if it does not evolve. Or it and the singers will stand frozen in adagio, waiting for the singers to inhale and resume. But the singers breathe the song itself and cannot sing without it. Both are critical to the success; kill one, the other dies with it. Songs and singers die.

Years ago a song was sung by different people from different places in different ways. This song started as one tune, one rhythm, which was pervasive and familiar. Those who sang the song grew and evolved and gave birth to new singers who brought their lives to the song so that the song grew with each generation of singers. As families diverged, the songs became increasingly disparate and unique. The singers settled into their songs and came to know their songs as a way of life. Their song was their message - their guiding paradigm - their culture.

Their culture was the song. Their culture was unique. And importantly, their song was one of many, their culture one of many, and while the singers occasionally clashed, they recognized the inherent value of each other's music. No singer ever assumed that their song was the only song, or the one right song. Their song was simply their song. And they sang their song because it worked for them - it allowed them to live successfully. Their culture supported their lifestyle - it promoted evolutionary success. Those singers will live a long time; have live lived a long time, even though a new and hugely influential song has swept virtually every other song into extinction. A new song has extinguished the myriad fires of countless singers. A new song has absorbed the life and diversity of history, and erased even the memory of millions of songs previous. A new song so inescapable, so unavoidable that it threatens the existence of all of humanity.

But for a few. The few who have already survived the onslaught of imperialism, paternalism, and white cultural expansion into the farrest corners of this world. The few whose way of life, whose song, is much the same as it was ten thousand years ago; much the same as it was for eons before a new song began to spread its wide influence.

bolno bolus <>
Kamloops, BC Canada - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 11:30:13 (PST)
It seems that every event in my life had been preparing me and leading me up to read Ishmael and B last week. I can't say much yet, but the words are coming. I need to figure out, now, how to get through each day with my new mindset.
Rebecca Blazer <>
Hutchinson, KS USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 11:28:07 (PST)
It is great to see how many have been affected and excited by the ideas in Ishmael and The Story of B. I and others are studying how we can broaden awareness of such ideas and give others a chance to experience other Cultures so that they might see for themselves and come to more thoughtful conclusions about our Culture. Some practical ideas:
1) A program or network to send young people abroad on "walkabouts", as they say in Australia
2) Try to institute a "travel year" or "exploratory year" into school schedules so that young people could have the chance to learn for themselves what the laws of the world are

We would appreciate your ideas.

Toby Wolf <>
Medford, MA USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 09:44:34 (PST)
Kudos to Quinn, but it seems to me that it seems pointless that we sit here on our coal-powered computers polluting up the world while we discuss how to save it.
Brian Mastenbrook <>
Schaumburg, IL USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 09:24:39 (PST)
This is an extremely captivating novel which changed the way I see the world. Thank you Mr.Quinn for bringing such an important, but ignored, issue to light. I only hope that there is still time to fix the mistakes we Takers have made, and restore the balance of the earth to its correct state.
Julia Brant <>
Fallston, Mmd USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 08:35:07 (PST)
As I've read reader's comments, two clear needs emerge: 1) the need to *do* something and 2) the need for non-virtual *local* conversation.
My suggestion for addressing both these needs is pretty simple: some cyber-savvy person could create a web page that lists, state by state & city by city, a contact person who will be the point person for local "study circles." My model for this is the Voluntary Simplicity study circles (which in my view, also address questions related to those raised by Ishmael). Point your browser to Voluntary Simplicity Study Circles to view format for their int'l network).
What I like about his approach is that it's not a "program" or an "answer" but simply an attempt to grapple with the key questions, which is what I hear Quinn saying is the primary essential task. Get the word out: ("...When people ask me what they should do, I tell them, "Teach others what you've learned here.'"--Ishmael in "My Ishmael")
Finally, this:
If you want to be a great leader,
you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans & concepts,
and the world will govern itself.

The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have,
the less self-reliant people will be.

Therefore the Master says:
I let go of the law,
and people become honest.
I let go of economics,
and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion,
and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.
--Tao Te Ching (Mitchell)

Scott Kramer <>
Fargo, ND USA - Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 07:53:28 (PST)
Great book...what else can be said that hasn't already stated over and over?

One thing is for certain--it's time to get to work!


Michael Eskew <>
Solana Beach, CA USA - Wednesday, January 28, 1998 at 21:15:47 (PST)
Thank you, Mr. Quinn! Quite possibly the most sensible book ever written.
T. Daley <>
Coventry, RI USA - Wednesday, January 28, 1998 at 18:32:41 (PST)
I'd been meaning to read "Ishmael" for a year or so, and finally asked for it for Christmas this year. To my surprize, I also received "My Ishmael"! And the quote on Ishmael about dividing books into those read before and after Ishmael is an understatement. I will now divide time into BI and AI. It makes so much sense. I spent seven years of my life as a restaurant manager and feeling like there was something wrong with what I was doing. Selling food. Why isn't food, a necessity in life, free to all? Shall we sell the air we breathe next?
It is really refreshing to see this Website. I'm glad to know there are other people out there with the courage to see the world from a different perspective. The polititians today softly sing Mother Culture's songs, the whole thing looks so much different today than before I read these wonderful works.

To DQ I say "Thank you :-)"

To all of you I say "Let's do this."

To Mother Culture I say "Nice song, but it's time to change the station."

You'll hear more from me. I've only just now found this page, and haven't fully explored it. But you'd better believe it's bookmarked now, and I'll be here often!

You all have a GREAT DAY!!

Marty <>
Lakewood, CO USA - Wednesday, January 28, 1998 at 11:38:20 (PST)
I'm excited and encouraged to find so many people as changed as I was by Ishmael and Daniel Quinn's other writings. Let's do something about it.

Daniel A. Sershen <>
Middletown, CT USA - Wednesday, January 28, 1998 at 11:26:02 (PST)
Wonderful story and message. Thanks.
John E. Lockett <>
Santa Rosa, CA USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 21:39:20 (PST)
Ishmael is everything I've been saying for years. We don't need more we need to distribute.
My original Ishmael has been passed around and I have shared "My Ish" and "B" with many who have like minds.
One of the things I stand for is having every Friday night across the continent be an automatic food drive.. So that food will be donated - freed up - So that we all get to contribute - give away the abundance with no fear.
We don't need to grow more we need to give away what we have and educate people to start thinking different!
It was nice to have it written so that anyone who reads it gets it !!
3 cheers!!!

Paula Kiessling Knudsen <>
Norwell, Ma USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 18:56:52 (PST)
B-Bumper Stickers I'd like to see:
"You can learn a lot....from a gorilla."
"It's not MY Mother Culture. I was abducted!"

I invite all to my website, especially to "Rantissimo" (and "Ancient Rantissimo"), to see B evolving and awakening. Thanks to DQ for the eye-opener!

Novagene Lyons <>
Charlottesville, VA USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 16:12:59 (PST)
i am currently reading ishmael for a west civ course, and it is completely fascinating. it totally changes how you look at the world.
Kassi Richey <>
arkadelphia, ar USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 14:01:01 (PST)
This book changed my perspectives of the real thing called LIFE!
Leslie Dull <>
Bethel, AK USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 12:49:41 (PST)
I certainly enjoyed and profited from reading both I and My I. What's next?
Bud Wiener <>
Oregon, Il USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 12:27:13 (PST)
I recently saw a story about an English family who "dropped out" of society and traveled around the world, heading east through Europe and Asia, across the Pacific, then through the U.S. They had two boys who were about 5 and 7, (I believe), and the family was gone for seven years. I was fascinated. The reporter spoke of the hardships they endured and how they had so little money they worked their way around the world. When they returned to England, just this past December, they had no home, no money, no jobs, and, to quote the reporter, "the children had no formal education." That last line really made me angry. No formal education? I dare anyone to put his or her children up against those two boys! Quinn makes the assertion in My Ishmael that non-Western cultures send their children into the world at 14 or 15, and by that age they are ready to survive without parental help. I am willing to wager that those boys fall into this category. I would have no fear for them. Imagine what they know about the world! Imagine the understanding they have about the interrelatedness of all cultures, societies, species. I envy this family. Despite their lack of material wealth, their cultural wealth will make up for it. They have more than survived; they have succeeded. I am ashamed to admit that I don't have the courage to strike out on such a journey with my own daughters. I still cling to the idea that I must save money for their "higher" education, though I still don't know what that is. And I must ensure they have a solid foundation, a stable home life. I am however, questioning their current educational style and exploring other options. Has anyone else found an educational style that seems to mirror what Q talks about (the self-directed learning)? I'd appreciate any feedback/suggestions.
Jennifer Whistler <>
Shillington, pa USA - Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 12:22:57 (PST)
Hi all --

Many of you are expressing the desire to find other Ishmael/Story of B readers and enthusiasts. Please note that we have developed the Ishmael Community specifically to answer to the questions, "How do I find others with this new understanding of the problems, and new perspective on the solutions?"

Point your browser to

Use this area to locate others, to allow others to locate you, and to contribute and share your skills and resources to this developing community. No fees. No gimmicks. If you don't get it, read some of the posts from other people. The people in the Community will have LOTS of suggestions for you! I only ask that you be respectful of others and use this area responsibly.

Also, note that this site will be re-launched in the VERY near future…watch for lots of new stuff! Also watch for the launch of the new foundation recently established by Daniel Quinn…FuturePositive - Foundation for a New Worldview.

The Webmaster <>
Houston, TX USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 21:09:56 (PST)
To Brian in Portland

I'm in synch with you Brian. My point was that an adjustment of technology does not imply a change of paradigm. As DQ writes, we did not plan to create a technaculture or a cunsumptive culture, it was a result of our story. And when we change the story we can evolve a new, or many new cultures that work. Imagine stepping back into the flow of evolution. I'm exited.

Jim Demko <>
Petersburg, AK USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 17:53:24 (PST)
Great Site!!
Andy Bishop <>
Bath, MI USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 14:35:55 (PST)
I am very interested in learning more before
I jump on the band wagon. I like what I hear but I would like to ask some of my own questions.

Sam Hanson <>
Bellingham, WA USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 13:14:29 (PST)
joseph w. rodgers <>
santa cruz, ca USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 13:13:27 (PST)
I've read Ishmael, My Ishmael, and am now reading The Story of B. The books are wonderful and fascinating. I love how they all refer to one another and compliment one another. I'm at a loss for words to describe the effect that these books have had on my consciousness because I'm still processing everything I've learned. I believe it would be very helpful for me to discuss the books with other readers online. Therefore, this is what I plan to do. Thank you for providing this site!
Lara <>
Ft. Collins, CO USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 10:52:52 (PST)
I am 18 and a freshman in college. My high school biology teacher mentioned that ISHMAEL was a book that I should think about reading. I admit that at first I was skeptical because this teacher always seemed to be trying to make me question my beliefs. The truth was that I didn't even ask what the book was about. However, when I was in the campus bookstore last week the book was on display and just seemed to be screaming my name. So, I bought it and haven't been able to put it down since. I'm almost through reading it. The strange thing to me is that although I understand the message the author is trying to speak about, that message isn't really what spoke to me the most. It is by far the most thought provoking book I have ever read, and it has really helped me to explore the way I think. Not just about how we, as humans, are going to save the world. But about all aspects of my life that I have been afraid to think about for 18 years. So, I thank you Mr. Quinn, and you too Mr. Valalik.
Natalie <>
Carnegie, PA USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 10:12:44 (PST)
Ishmael has honestly changed my life. It's the most cornball thing to hear, but it's completely true. If anyone out there is deeply concerned in the fate of the world and man's place in it, Daniel Quinn is the author to read.
Spread the word.

Jake Lewis <>
Canaan, NH USA - Monday, January 26, 1998 at 08:24:18 (PST)
Have read Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael. Any 'B - like' gatherings planned in the Phoenix area? Please invite me and my friend Paula.
Michael Yanko <>
Phoenix, AZ USA - Sunday, January 25, 1998 at 21:28:39 (PST)
The book made a valid point but we as humans wiil not change our minds about the world until it is coming to the end.
Brandon Vaughn <Alsport83>
Chicago, IL USA - Sunday, January 25, 1998 at 19:56:48 (PST)
Our friend, in the metaphor below, has another question to answer: How important was it for him/her to watch TV in the first place? If anyone wants to read a good discourse on the value of television, look into Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death". It is both a page turner, and an eye opener.
Brian <>
Portland, OR USA - Sunday, January 25, 1998 at 19:45:55 (PST)
In response to Jim Demko.
People argue about the plausibility of our civilization returning to a more environmentally friendly way of life without having to abandon all of the technology that makes our lives so much simpler.
(1) Must we return, or could we create something new? Indeed, could we return, or would anything we do be something new for the simple fact that we are doing it?
(2) Technology is not tangible, it is ideas and knowledge. Those things we refer to as technology are not technology itself, but rather products that are created using technology.
(3) All of the products, or at least a great deal of them, that we have created to make life easier for ourselves seem to make life quite a bit more difficult than it need be, or ever has been. Society, that is us, has created "solutions" to problems that did not exist before society, us again, created those problems.
(4) (a metaphor for our way of life)
"Honey, do you know where the remote control is?"
"No. Why don't you use the paging function on the remote-remote."
"Where is the remote-remote?"
"I think its on the TV."
"When will they create a new technology that will help me keep track of all my remotes, remote-remotes, and sanity? I can't take all this confusion anymore! I need another remote!"
(5) If you say a word enough times it loses its meaning and begins to sound like just a bunch of strange phonetic sounds. With enough repitition words cease making sense. A good question to ask is: How much sense did they make in the first place?

Brian <>
Portland, OR USA - Sunday, January 25, 1998 at 19:40:38 (PST)
I have just enrolled in college at the age of 39. One of the course I selected to start off is World History 101. Reading about a misconception in Ishmael is one thing. Coming face to face with its propogation in 1998 in a typical college course is frightening. The text, written by scholars from Columbia, Dartmouth, Boston, Tufts, etc. begins with a position that everything that occurred before the mesopotamian cultures were mere attempts and civilization.

I have written in the book that the theme or bias the authors have adopted might easily be arrogant in its conception. It is just as likely that for the first 2 million years of human existence, people lived at peace with the world, disturbing the balance only within the last 4 or 5 thousand years.

In fact, neolithic artifacts indicate highly advanced culture that apparently left no mark on the land. I personally feel affronted by the supposition that civilization has unquestionably advanced over the last 2 percent of human participation with the planet.

I plan to stand up and say this on the first day of class on Monday.

What a delicious way to start doing something about it.

Edward S Greenberg <>
Carlsbad, CA USA - Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 16:56:34 (PST)
wish to communicate with those of like mind to further cause esposed in ishmael
becca massey <>
prescott, wi USA - Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 09:37:09 (PST)
wish to communicate with those of like mind to further cause esposed in ishmael
becca massey <>
prescott, wi USA - Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 09:35:33 (PST)
wish to communicate with those of like mind to further cause esposed in ishmael
becca massey <>
prescott, wi USA - Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 09:30:25 (PST)
Solving the problems described in Daniel Quinn's wonderful and provocative books requires an understanding of human nature -- no easy task.
Understanding human behavior necessitates understanding the premier accomplishment of human evolution -- the extraordinary capacity of
human behavior to be changed by contact with the environment in all of its complexity (despite the
recent claims by evolutionary psychologists). We would do well to look to the experimental analysis of behavior
as a first step. Undertanding the variables responsible for behavior can enable us to think creatively about
how to arrange them to change the behaviors responsible for our current problems. Of course, there needs to
be more consensus about what those behaviors are. Daniel Quinn's books have made an important contribution toward
that end.

Hank Schlinger <>
Springfield, MA USA - Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 07:56:34 (PST)
I think that one of the most beatiful things about ISHMAEL is the fact that a gorilla is showing mankind its mistakes. I've heard several complaints about this making the story less "believeable", "truthful", or "effective" (I don't have the right words), and this brings up the topic of perspective - an idea which is arguably the basis of our experience, as our vision defines our existance, though many argue that experience defines perception, which is really a delusion, delusions being nothing more than persectives (OK, I'm rambling). Ishmael's identity is a literary device designed to bring us an "outside" viewpoint: outside Taker culture and outside the human society Mr. Quinn's readers have been incubated in. I believe that one of Mr. Quinn's goals in ISHMAEL was to help readers see things from a higher perspective. By providing a viewpoint outside of our limited culture, it makes it easier for the reader to understand the viewpoint and reality of being outside the cultural prison.

Let me know what you think.

Matthew Dorn <>
Eau Claire, WI USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 21:01:11 (PST)
I was so strongly effected by Ishmael that I've been writing a novel based on the insights found there about the Book of Genesis. If anyone out there has advice about getting it published, please help.

My novel takes place just before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. and the characters present a reinterpretation of the major biblical stories from the perspective presented in Ishmael

Bob West <>
Denver, CO USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 20:33:59 (PST)
I am yet to be familiar with this website, but I am oh-so familiar with Ismael and Daniel Quinn.

I look forward to hearing some responses soon. I need to fill the "Ismael void" in my life.

Megan Friedman <>
Arlington, VA USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 20:17:34 (PST)
Although I would like to be active in changing the current cultural status quo as much as anyone else posting here, I have grave concerns about organized efforts to do so. Large organizations tend to develop agendas which can produce effects that can not be forseen. Generally, a culture evolves it is not engineered. Or should I say a sucessful culture? I think the solution amounts to individuals gaining a new perspective, possibly through the reading of D.Q.'s books, and then making these ideas their own. A meme is a powerful thing, and this meme will catch on because it makes sense.
R. <>
Derry, PA USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 14:14:31 (PST)
Don't have a E-mail address but wanted to look up this site and see what it had in store.
Ishmeal, Story of B, Providence, and especially My IshmeaL have changed my whole system, mode of being, the way i look at my life, purpose, and goals.
I'm a Social Science High school teacher and the chapters "school daze" in MY ISHMEAL rocked my world. I'm no longer content teaching "the Cirriculum" the system has set up. I have this buring unrest with the school system. I want to yell at the top of my lungs at what we are doing to ourselves. Selling this "culture" thinking that this is the way. As a student in high school i had trouble with the system and then after years of brainwashing i felt the system was working and one can find happiness and success, but after Daniel Quinn's writings I've been brought to freedom once again, but now the real task begins. I need to work within the system and change it, but i have this gnawning voice that says: "High school cirriculums are worthless" I asked a class of high school students if H.S. was usesfull in the "real" world almost every students said it wasn't and that they didn't need the bullshit they are forced to learn in this institution.
Many emotions, my world has changed now I must influence the rest of the world--ONE STUDENT AT A TIME-- KEEP THE FAITH
signing off-- Reid ---

Reid Kitchen
Arcata, ca USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 10:20:08 (PST)
I can think of nothing profound to say here. The book really speaks for itself!
Leanna Lawrence McCormick <>
Lexington, KY USA - Friday, January 23, 1998 at 10:04:57 (PST)
My parents think I don't kill bugs because I'm afraid I'll be reincarnated as a bug. It will never occur to them that I don't feel it is my place to decide who (or what) should live or die.

I have, on occasion had dreams that eventually happened, but they tended to involve people and places I didn't recognize, and so I forgot about them until the event actually happened. I have to tell you that months before I read any of DQ's work, I dreamed of a school (so to speak) where all the doors were open and the children(?) came and went as they're interests lead them, learning what they truley desired to learn. This one was powerful enough that I remebered it on awakening. Then to see that had someone else had the same vision truely gives me hope for the world.

I notice that alot of people see the truthfulness of Ishmael, but feel the problem is to big to solve. To this I paraphrase Richard Bach in "Illusions". Argue for your limitations and they're yours.

Greg Lambert

P.S. "Who is John Galt?"

Greg Lambert <>
Grand Prairie, TX USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 22:12:29 (PST)
Although the task seems enormous, there is a glimmer of hope. This is it. If you believe that all life is one then you must believe that the biota will be self regulating as a nessecity for self preservation. Although this may not be pretty in a humanistic sense it should insure the continuation of the life of the planet in a Gaian sense. The thing is to prepare yourself for the compassion and understanding it will require to watch these changes take place. B
B Anastasio <>
Colbert , WA USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 20:02:44 (PST)
Another common argument that we here in defense of the status quo of mother culture is that we cannot go back or become hunter gatherers because life would be miserable without our present technology. This argument begs the question; at what level of technology has our culture, or will our culture reach fulfillment, at what level ecstasy and at what level misery. Of course no one can give a definitive answer because the question and the assumptions are more than subjective, they are absurd.

The currents of nature will support us as they support the rest of our natur-al family, if we¹d only let go.

Jim Demko <>
Petersburg, AK USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 17:18:18 (PST)
All stories seem to be written from some slant. One must take from each tale what one finds valuable. I found ISMAEL to be of infinite value. However, I also saw the need for action. Subtle action, but more than just rallying for what needs to be done. On a mass level, what can be done? How can a few supporters of a sustainable lifestyle encourage the rest of the world to change their conscioulsness? No easy feat. But we can research the facts, how to take off from where we are today, and how to include those who are unwilling to give up their comforts. The amount of research of how to incorporate conscious living into our lives until it has fully taken over is phenomenal. But so are the numbers of people who live on this earth. Ishmael speaks of natural laws we need to follow. But, in previous arguments with "conservative" thinkers, we are doing quite well with technology. Such doubt also requires an individual change. Not only in goals and values, but in how the individual treats him or herself. But I don't think i should take the room to go on. However, Ishmael is not just an idea... it is potential action. I don't know about you, but i am damned curious to look into it.....
Jennifer Beauvais <>
San Luis Obispo, CA USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 15:30:15 (PST)
A book I plan to circulate heavily amongst all of my friends and whomever else.
Denise Moore <>
Friday Harbor, WA USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 13:11:29 (PST)
³What do we do know?², we ask.

Occasionally someone suggests that we needn't abandon all our technology in order to ³save² the world. And to a degree they are right. The earth might support our present population at a standard of living equivalent to western Europe. The rub there is, what would limit a technology addicted culture to this level? We can imagine a system of laws and regulations enforced by a world government. This does not sound like a very pleasant or workable solution, first because of western civilizations love, of independence and self determination, but more importantly because it would not necessitate a change of the paradigm which instills and reinforces the same illusion of independence.

But the illusion we call independence is really an illusion of separation, and here lies the problem.

At the end of WW2 the United States dropped the most horrible weapons imaginable on Japan, killing and maiming the populations of two cities. From the White House this was a ³strategic move² to end the war. From the B-29 this was another ³bombing mission². But from ground zero this was death and destruction as the world had never known. The point is that perpetrators of this annihilation were twice removed from the actual killing. I emphasize twice. The first level of separation was racism and nationalism, the second level was technology.

It is these same levels of separation that allow us to annihilate the rest of the living world and as long as we maintain this paradigm we will continue to do so and no fine tuning or regulation of the flying machine will stop us.

So, ³what can I do, what should I do² is the question we are left with after digesting Ishmael. My answer, and I believe Daniel Quinns is in the story. Where did our favorite gorilla advise we look for the the natural laws that we are all subject to? In nature was the answer.

I apologize if that seems an over simplification, but I believe that we are handicapped by the blinders of mother culture, programed to overlook the simple and the obvious. Can you see the connections in the Hiroshima analogy ? We can do what we do because the other is other than ourselves, and because nature is just stuff. If there is a remedy or treatment for this disease it must be to relearn our connections to nature and to recognize the others as connected living beings.

Personally, a decade ago I might have intellectual agreed with this proposition, but I would not have really know this basic truth. I only came to really know after a physical separation from the caverns of mother culture and an immersion in the real world. Or less poetically speaking, I moved to Alaska and the rain forest called the Tongass.

Please don¹t misread this as a suggestion that we all try to move to the wilderness. All I¹m saying is that you can¹t really know someone until you meet them in person and spend some time with them. Until that time the person or persons of nature remain an abstraction, as a character in a book.

I have a nephew growing up in the sprawling urban megalopolis of Seattle. Daily he witnesses the sprouting of another McDs, another mall, another highway, as I witness the sprouting of the spring wildflowers and the cycles of the season. How can he know that nature is under attack when megalopolis and TV make up his natural world and eventually his world view?

So part one of my answer to ³what do we do², is, get to know the real world. You cannot love, or save, what you do not know and there is more life to know in an acre of rain forest or any wild lands than one could imagine.

The second part of my answer is, get to know and understand how we live affects the ³real world². I use the analogy of a pyramid. Look about the room you¹re in and choose an item, any item, and estimate the volume of material extracted from the natural world it is composed of. Let this item represent the apex of the pyramid. Now, visualize the volumes of mass and energy that were required to bring that item to your home as a level just below the top. Then, visualize the multiple layers of infrastructure and extraction that support the upper levels. Finally, transpose the base area of your pyramid over those acres of wilderness you have come to know.

Do you recognize the similarities between that wilderness and Hiroshima. If you can, then you will also see that with this change of knowledge, of paradigm, it becomes not a mater of having to give up the technical trappings of our culture, it will be of wanting to. Remove the levels of separation and will no more be willing to destroy your natural (nature) family than you would be to slaughter, in hand to hand combat, your family in Hiroshima.

If You got this far, thanks for listening.

Jim Demko <>
Petersburg, AK USA - Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 12:51:26 (PST)
I'm a little afraid to post a comment, I tend to get wordy and redundant. This is usually due to an inability to put words to emotions. This would probably be the case here. The powerful words written in Ishmael have stirred deep and strong inner emotions. If there is a just cause, something to believe it, or at the very least something to make us stop and review what and who we are, this is it. The powerful word of Ishmael that made me take stock of my life and what I believed in. I found out that I didn't know what I believed in. Well, so much for not being wordy.

Douglas Horvat <>
Kenilworth, PA USA - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 20:58:18 (PST)
what's a URL?
lynne likens <>
ashland, or USA - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 17:47:09 (PST)
For my whole life, I have known in the back of my mind that there was something else. Why did I not become exposed to this book and it's ideas until now! I am 20 years old and I think this book should be read by everyone, especially young people.
Jake Bennett <>
Sioux Narrows, ON Canada - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 16:27:28 (PST)
Thank you Mr. Quinn
Ian Campbell <>
Bridgeville, pa USA - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 15:06:56 (PST)
For my 15 years on this planet, I have constantly looked for a strait answer on life. Every religeon I have had pushed on me has always seemed flawed. When I picked up this book, titled Ishmael, off of an empty desk in the library, I had a strange feeling that it may have part of the answer I was looking for. After reading it and The Story of B, I was not dissapointed.
Daniel Chapman <>
Honolulu, HI USA - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 12:00:18 (PST)
Micah D. Kiel <>
zimmerman, mn USA - Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 10:26:00 (PST)
I started Ishmael at 3:00 AM this morning because I couldn't get to sleep....I was still up at 7:30 and reading it at breakfast before I had to go to school. Tonight, it is 9:30, and I am almost done.
It is definitly the most thought provoking book that i have ever read and certainly the most philosophical. I have never read a story like this....because I , like the human in the book, never questioned the society that we live in....I just assumed. I knew the basic facts, that we had global warming and balh blah blah but the facts never seemed to sink in. I am 13 years old. I am very glad that I read this book now, because I will have the most time to enjoy it. If I had waited, then I would be left out of the loop for two. I can't wait to see what happens next. Thank you Mr. Quinn, for making a book that EVERYONE can enjoy.


Melody <>
NJ USA - Tuesday, January 20, 1998 at 18:38:12 (PST)
Thank you Daniel Quinn for writing these books, and thanks to your publishers for having the courage to publish them. I am ready to save the earth. I see now it is important to first save myself. I plan to join jforrest here in Minneapolis to explore a discussion group on next steps. I do believe that the only voice of importance is mine. I can't tell you what to say and I can't wait to hear you say what I want. So, here I go. Hope to meet you on the way.

Bob Pahl <>
Bloomington, MN USA - Tuesday, January 20, 1998 at 13:31:32 (PST)
"Man did not create the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web he does to himself." Chief Seattle
USA - Tuesday, January 20, 1998 at 11:28:22 (PST)
Spread the word. Mr.Quinn has. You should too.
jon ferguson <jfergus1@bigred>
ne USA - Tuesday, January 20, 1998 at 10:44:55 (PST)
What I've read in both "Ishmael" and "My Ishmael" has had a profound inpact on my life. As an artist, I intend to implement these messages into all of my future pieces. Kudos and Thanx to Daniel Quinn !!
Brett Steeves <>
Cape Coral, FL USA - Tuesday, January 20, 1998 at 04:16:07 (PST)
I read Ishmael and passed the copy on to as many people as I can. I also work at a bookstore and keep it displayed as an employees choice. The best thing about this book and the others is the feeling I hade that finally I was not alone. Thank you and count me in for any help I can be to pass on this message and vision for a world so desperately in need. What is amazing to me is the simplicity of the vision but the complexity of the task.
Ron Beyerlin <>
Seattle, WA. USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 20:44:09 (PST)
Certainly seems to be quite an interest in moving on to a different mode of civilization as contemplated in these books. Not that big a deal to do really, now that we have the internet, although rather tedious to say the least.

The idea is not an alternative to civilization but rather a alternative model. So all we are really talking about is an altnernate set of rules for the conduct of civilization.

Sorry, there is no way to avoid rules. All life must deal with them, gravity being among the more obvious.

So, a new model for the conduct of civilization seems called for. As I say, no big mystery to this (but a hell of a lot of detail).

Civilization serves the following acitivities:
1. Food
2. Shelter
3. Clothing
4. Culture (Art and Education)
5. Trade

Will Durant's first book of the Story of Civilization gives a good study of this topic.

Each of these activities simply need to be rewritten to fit a model described in Mr. Quinns books (and elsewhere, ie Paul Hawkin, The Ecology of Commerce). That is what to do next. It is really just a seed that must be given the chance to grow.

As I say, fairly tedious, but certainly straight forward. Local trade will certainly play a larger part of the picture than it does now, but all this will surely come out in the wash; no need to go into this here.

Why doesn't Mr. Quinn or someone interested simply serve as a repository for the collaboration, construction, and implementation of this new model? Again, just organization work here. No need to espouse dogma by anyone.

There certainly seems to be enough people interested to make short work of such a project.

So for those who want to know what the next step is, someone has to agree to be a repository, then all who are interested need to start detailing jobs and handing out assignments. That's about all I can think is really necessary.

Hell, I'll help too. Might be fun.

Edward S Greenberg <>
Carlsbad, CA USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 20:06:49 (PST)
I'm a pretty pessimistic 17-year-old senior in high school and when I first heard about this book, it was by environmental science teacher and he made it one of the books that we could read to get participation points. I was in desperate need of some points and decided to read the book and get the points. Ashamedly, I thought that the book would be something like a "free willy" movie kinda story, where it makes you feel like you should somehow sympathize with gorillas, try to save them, and the feeling would go away. I never would have thought that this book could have been so sophisticated and deep. I think I still have to reread some parts, or actually, the whole book, because it's very abstract. The ideas that are presented are so amazing, but simple. It's amazing that society hasn't been able to figure it out. I really enjoyed the book and feel really bad for ever doubting that this book could have been any less than great.
leanne <>
San Gabriel, CA USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 19:56:05 (PST)
Having been overwhelmed by ISHMAEL, I was greatly comforted and, in fact relieved to read in MY ISHMAEL all that I always knew in my heart was true. Thank you for saying what we all need to DO so remarkably.
holly nires <>
northbrook, il USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 19:15:48 (PST)
I read Ishmael when I was in the 9th grade, and I'm almost theough My Ishmael now. I live in a little redneck town, so nobody understands me or my beliefs. I am left with this incredible feeling of "WHAT NEXT?" I need someone to talk to about this. I need a change. If you're on IRC, I'm on chatnet. My channel is #Woodstock If you're not, Please E-mail me at I need a revolution, whether it be large scale or judt in my own life. I hope to hear from Someone. I loved the book Mr. Quinne. This is the #1 Book that I've ever read, important wise. I hope to start on the story of B soon, and your autobiography. Thanx for the new meaning you've put into my life.

Ben Humphries <>
English, IN USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 18:49:01 (PST)
Thank you.
Nels Boerner <none-using friend's computer>
Bloomington, Indiana USA - Monday, January 19, 1998 at 06:56:59 (PST)
i am a student at castro valley high school in castro valley, california. i read ishmael when i was 14, a secomd time at 15, then the story of b, and at 16 i just got done reading my ishmael. after reading the books i notice my self becoming more distant from my "peers" i have often noticed my self siting in a class room and noting all the times i say some one "help" the earth by recycling, or when the teacher would answer some smart-ass question of why we needed to know such things like how photosynthes-is
happens, down to the calvin cycle that is located in the dark reaction of C3 plants, and the formation of ATP in C4 plats, and how it differs from the formation of ATP, and ADH in C3 plants. of corse the teacher replies with something along the lines of "it will help you out in the future" or "photosynthe-sis is the way autrotrophs
make nutrion so hetrotrophs can survive, and if we understand it it will help us in the future".

i have personally heard both those excuses from a teacher and i cant help but see a usless waste of time, money, resorces, and common sense.

chris <>
castro valley, ca USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 23:41:47 (PST)
Braden Wurschmidt <>
Walled Lake, MI USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 20:03:48 (PST)
Dear Mr. Quinn
I met you at your book signing on Nov. 22 in Larkspur, CA at A Clean Well Lighted Place for Books. I'm glad to have access to your web sight and look forward to learning more and doing my part in saving the world, however that might be.
Sincerely and curiously yours,
Francina Flaherty

Francina Flaherty <>
Carlsbad, CA USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 19:17:35 (PST)
After reading Ishmael and The Story of B, I felt an urgent need (more than usual) to do something about the plight of the earth. At the same time, I didn't know what to do and worried that my enthusiam would wane, as is usually the case when I don't take any action. It's easy to get discouraged and believe that there is no hope for us, especially when the majority of people don't understand or just don't care about anything other than human expansion. That's why I was glad to find this Web Site where there are others that believe the way I do. Maybe we can do something if we can discuss things and work together. It's a good start anyway.
Teresa Brock <>
Idaho Falls, ID USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 15:56:12 (PST)
I have read ISHMAEL and THE STORY OF B: I bought the second. The thinking is provocative. I cannot help agreeing with the central premise, i.e. the difference in the taking and leaving behaviors. But I question if the present condition of the earth, very much in dispute, by the way, is simply the result of food and population. The human race is NOT destroying the earth. The technology used by the human race IS destroying the earth. What would happen if we were to be permitted to change to a creative rather than a destructive technology? The oil and ore companies would go broke and the individuals who control those companies could lose their power to corrupt the political systems that make cattle of us all.

Electricity can be generated from a mixture of cellulose (corn oil) and water; it is being done. Motor vehicles and aircraft can be powered the same way; it has been done. An entire manufacturing system can be based on cellulose, not ores and petroleum. Nearly every plant that grows is a source of power and materials. And all are renewable, up to three times a year under controlled conditions. Trees are also cellulose, but we do not have to use many of them. Point: The Dominican Republic wants to build an electricity generating plant powered with corn oil from the Netherlands and water and using proven technology (Black & Decker is interested in it for their small gasoline powered engines) but the IMF, etc. refuses to lend the money. Who controls the IMF? The human race can have all the electricity it can possibly use without burning fossil fuels, building dams or toying with atomic and nuclear energy. Do you really think your gods would deny us this?

Electricity can also be generated from extremely efficient heat pump designs. These exist. They (the size of a small refrigerator) generate enough electricity to run an average household with all its appliances and devices and still have an overage to sell back to the power companies. Since the powering refrigerant (not CFC) boils at -50 degrees F. and below, they would have worked throughout the current freeze in the NE USA and parts of Canada. They are on display every Saturday morning in northern New Jersey. When the inventors took them to DC for a hands on demo, every single member of Congress, the cabinet and all the top bureaucrats absolutely refused to even look at it. Al Gore wrote a letter, copies are available, in which he stated that we must stay with fossil fuels "because they are proven."

Crop yields can be increased 40% and more by using diatomaceous earth (DE) for insect control rather than using poisonous chemicals. It is being done. The US government long ago conducted studies. Many private firms and individuals have also conducted studies. Copies of the reports are available. I am certain "imitation" DE can be created and manufactured. Irrigation requirements can be reduced more than 50% by using "water beads" (I'll send you a bag).

Within short order, small communities generating their own electricity (100% NON polluting) and growing their own raw materials for manufacturing can be established. The technology to create plastics (bio-degradable) from cellulose already exists. Wool and cotton are renewable resources. Other plants and animal hair can be used to make fabric.

I could go on and on, but I think it would be pointless to do so. You have developed your own closed system and other variables will not be allowed to penetrate that system. People do not destroy the earth, technology does. It is not an either-or choice. But it will take worldwide revolutions to topple the power structures and start anew.

I fear your approach would simply make us into much more uncomfortable slaves. I would prefer to see new technology and a new social order. The earth will reach its natural capacity one way or the other.

Jim Still

Jim Still <>
Palmyra, NJ USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 14:30:10 (PST)
My immediate impressions on just finnishing Ishmael is that I am lucky my friend gave it to me to read - It's an important book, and I hadn't heard of it. I'm gonna get a copy so I can pass it on.
tom mccormick <>
San Diego, CA USA - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 11:30:29 (PST)
Can a person save the world before he saves him/herslf?

I can anticipate all the suggestions on how to do both and how they can strengthen each other but . . .

I've just finished The Story of B (already finished Ishmail) and I'm curious how long the message stays with a person while they continue to be engulfed in today's fast-paced society.

scott <>
tokyo, japan - Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 03:12:38 (PST)
It is really great to know that so many people really do care about the state of our culture. These books (Ishmael, Story of B, and My Ishmael) have inspired me so much!! I know now what I want to be when I am able to enter the "job market"--a teacher. I never realized that there was any problem with our culture at all until I read these books. They have helped me find a real purpose to my life when I thought that that just wasn't possible. I can honestly say that I have an earnest desire to save the world now, and part of how I will do this is by letting others know about it. Thanks, Mr. Quinn, for inspiring me so much. You've helped, through your books, give meaning and direction to my life. Thank you.
Kristen B <>
Darien, IL USA - Saturday, January 17, 1998 at 17:51:24 (PST)
Just finished reading Ishmael, a Christmas present from my housemate who read it some time ago.

Like most who've posted (from what I've read) I'm very moved and challenged by the book. What I most want to do is find a way to connect the work I do teaching groups of people about vocal toning with some kind of regular practice of seeking the answers to this dilemna inside ourselves.

Anyone in the SF Bay Area willing to "commit" (for several consecutive weeks, minimum) to this kind of exploration please contact me. Maybe together we can find ways to turn this around. Looking forward to reading the next two books!

Karolyn van Putten <>
Oakland, CA USA - Friday, January 16, 1998 at 22:34:03 (PST)

MESA, AZ USA - Friday, January 16, 1998 at 20:39:17 (PST)
A great piece of work! Ishmael's tutorial is clarity. I will definitely read more...
Craig Parisot <>
Somerville, MA USA - Friday, January 16, 1998 at 10:01:03 (PST)
After reading both Ishael and My Ishmael, I felt like somone had read my mind. Mr. Quinns writings helped me to direct my opinions about the world as we know it. In many of my conversations I find myself sounding very much like Ishael. I would like to thank Mr. Quin for writing these books, for without direction, our world will die. I cannot wait to dive into "The Story Of B"
Magen Gray <>
VA USA - Friday, January 16, 1998 at 09:39:18 (PST)

"What do we do now??!?" To all who are scanning through the guestbook and have asked that, I hope to offer just that, at least eventually. Find out more at:

ESPECIALLY visit if you are in the Minneapolis, Minnesota area as I want to start up a local discussion group!

"Coyote-ka" <>
currently Minneapolis, MN USA - Friday, January 16, 1998 at 05:12:14 (PST)
Yeah, the book starts to get the reader thinking about what's going on in the world. I will certainly have a different point of view about everything from now on, and try to think about things in the way Ishmael did.
Elizabeth Kocek <>
Downers Grove, EL USA - Thursday, January 15, 1998 at 20:17:48 (PST)
alex oberley <>
eugene, OR USA - Thursday, January 15, 1998 at 19:46:05 (PST)
I'm a cynical guy. It's all good if people everywhere want to save the world. Hell, I know I do. But, I was just thinking, late night, much like I do every late night, that saving the world is a pretty damn big goal. You have to realize that the brain funtions differently in the "late night mode" than it does in the "8 hour, waste your time sleeping, mode". I've concluded this, over time, in the late night mode of thinking: If people, like me, really want to save this crumby world, they have to start by changing themselves. Bam. There you are. I just told everyone who wants to know, how to save the world. Briefly, that is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, it's not really the world that we need to worry about saving, it's ourselves. Goals, goals, goals. Damn, if I ever have the patience to write a book, it'll just be a collection of intellectual malarkey to people who would rather worry about saving the world than saving themselves. Bless all who need it. And get enough sleep.

Derrick Hochstatter <>
Portland, Me USA - Wednesday, January 14, 1998 at 23:01:19 (PST)
I already knew and understood it all..the biggest ah ha ever, and a reaffirmation of the way I am trying to live my life...insightful, true, bold, and time for change..from within
Eric Borneman <>
houston, tx USA - Wednesday, January 14, 1998 at 19:41:00 (PST)
Daniel quinn is a fundamental writer of our
time. It would seem to me that the best thing
that can happen will be the collapse of our
"world" economy forcing immigration of peoples
to areas suited for survival, forcing people
tore adopt hunter gatherer principles as food
will be no longer supplied through mass
production methods, perhaps this will be the
law of life working as millions will die
fighting for survival and for food.
A new chapter in human life. Is it really
plausible that so called representive
governments of our time will suddenly stop
say "hang on" we"ve been wrong for the last
ten thousand years how about restricting food
quotas and levelling off the population.
Won't religious leaders argue that you are
playing god, as you so rightly pointed out
religion does believe that man is on earth
to conquer the world, once faced with any
responcibility over mans actions i.e. to
limit his existance religion creates a god
mystique that we have no right to assume
ourselves, contradictory. I love the web
that you have woven, much like the
Foucauldian panapticon, but I do think that
the way new minds will occur is through an
economic shakedown as those who "Beleive" in
the taker world view realise its worth. this
will not be a bad thing, as Tao philosophy
argues, we cannot estimate that which is
good or bad, until we have seen the outcome.
I enjoy the fact that the antichrist as in
b has come, a lovely twist- here to save
the world.
I can surely help in the making of Ishmael,
i hope the outcome of the film won't be a
disapointment. If mr daniel quinn would
like to write to me,(you gotta try)
as the emmil address
is bogus and i live in london here is my
address; 2b manor ave,brockley london se4 1pd
i'm there for another term- it's a halls of
residence. Thank you for the challenge of
ishmael and the story of b

mr james baker <>
summit, nj USA - Wednesday, January 14, 1998 at 10:16:35 (PST)
Someone finally has something RIGHT to say in the latter half of the 20th century.

Bless you, Daniel Quinn.



Michael Crowl <>
Seattle, WA USA - Wednesday, January 14, 1998 at 09:19:39 (PST)
Can you help me???
I am a new student and have a story and some thing to contribute to the ishmael movie.

Ray Griggs <>
Van Nuys, Ca USA - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 22:29:48 (PST)
I would just like to say, simply, that Daniel Quinn is one of the most powerful writers of this time period.
Chris Lentz <>
Boston, MA USA - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 15:16:26 (PST)
Another book that may help those who are interested in the line of thinking that DQ puts forth is John A. Livingston's, Rogue Primate: an exploration of human domestication. Mr. Livingston is a naturalist living in Ontario, Canada who was awarded the Governor Generals Award for Nonfiction in 1994 for Rogue Primate. (The Governor Generals Award is Canada's highest honor paid to it's authors). This book is extremely insightful and powerful. Read a chapter then go out into your community and see example after example of our dominant human ideology. It is easily read and I personally have 3 copies that I lend out to anyone in my community. Those who read this book are as profoundly changed as I was and it appears as many of you were reading Ishmael. A should read before embarking on saving the world.
Phil Le Good <>
Vancouver, BC Canada - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 13:48:13 (PST)
Another book that may help those who are interested in the line of thinking that DQ puts forth is John A. Livingston's, Rogue Primate: an exploration of human domestication. Mr. Livingston is a naturalist living in Ontario, Canada who was awarded the Governor Generals Award for Nonfiction in 1994 for Rogue Primate. (The Governor Generals Award is Canada's highest honor made to it's authors). This book is extremely insightful and powerful. Read a chapter then go out into your community and see example after example of our dominant human ideology. It is easily read and I personally have 3 copies that I lend out to anyone in my community. Those who read this book are as profoundly changed as I was and it appears as many of you were reading Ishmael. A should read before embarking on saving the world.
Phil Le Good <>
Vancouver, BC Canada - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 13:43:30 (PST)
First, an imaginary conversation between me and Ishmael.
Q: So you are saying, Ish, that we got to stop looking to the supernatural for to solution to our problems.
A: Yes.
Q: Does that include telepathic apes? Come to think of it, maybe I should just kill you and dissect your brain. I could be rich!
A:Taker bastard!
Seriously, though, I do consider the fact that no one seems to curious about a telepathic ape one of the weakest points of two otherwise fine novels.
I find Ms. Stoner's opinions completely ungrounded. At times I was wondering if she was reading the same books. Still, she is entitled to her opinion.
Finally, an IDEA! For a relatively small amount of money, imagine if cities and towns all over the world had groups of people cataloguing their local ecology. Everyone would have a small laptop computer w/ a scanner and a digital camera. People would photograph local flora and fauna, and e-mail to experts anything they are unable to identify. Children and parents working together could further understand their local ecosystems. It could have all the information kept on a central database, and the "experts" could hold tours demonstrating the complexity of urban ecology.
There would be a small board of people to provide information on the various subjects. Not just academicians, but horticulturalists, Native Elders, and herbalists.
It could be the beginning of an Urban Leaver Revolution, or at least an aspect of it. If a half a million dollars could be raised (not an impossible goal) it could be enough to outfit one to two hundred people with the appropriate equipment.
A previous person noted how difficult it is to determine safe plants from dangerous ones, and this could be a good way to solve that problem. Imagine if homeless people could find their own food simply through foraging. We cannot lock up the wind or the rain or the Sun (YET!) so why food?
It would also be an excellent use for our modern technology.
Feel free to e-mail me with your responses to my idea.

Michael Amberwind <>
London, ON CANADA - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 10:39:37 (PST)
Hi, Daniel, this is Peter again. I'm still staying in Berlin with Thomas. Remember my letter? And the postcard from Vienna? It's a petty we kind of lost touch. Greetings from Lara Upestù and Annique Lind from Paris. And, of course, from Paul.
Hear from you soon?
Take care now

Peter Stillman c/o Thomas Claviez <>
Berlin, Germany - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 08:37:51 (PST)
I just finished The Story of B and read Ishmael a few months ago. Am now bursting with rage, despair, hope and enthusiasm to change the world I see. In fact I had this desire prior to the books, but now it is focused. As one guest said, "a real slap up aside the head!" It's time to wake others; other than simple distro, how do we do this? -JP
JP Farrar <>
Louisville, CO USA - Tuesday, January 13, 1998 at 07:03:19 (PST)
I no longer walk the path alone and yet I see no one for as far as the eye can see. There are sounds but only silence can be heard and now there is hope but I fear for the future.
Christopher J. Fielder <>
Costa Mesa, CA USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 21:31:23 (PST)
I no longer walk the path alone and yet I see no one for as far as the eye can see. There are sounds but only silence can be heard and now there is hope but I fear for the future.
Christopher J. Fielder <>
Costa Mesa, CA USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 21:30:20 (PST)
Only just stepped into the site. LOVED the book - a real slap up aside the head. One of those ,"how the hell could I have missed THAT?". Looking forward to the next book and will read over the site. Well done on creating it.
Bob Wood <>
LaCrescenta , CA USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 18:57:50 (PST)
I thought it was a really good book, and it changed my thoughts on some issues.
I think your a good author and you should keep writing.

mike <dogrow>
downers grove, il USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 18:26:54 (PST)
Well. . . . . .?
What next?
How do we incorporate our thoughts into actions within the taker world? We are committed to answering this and more through monthly thought groups. Anyone interested? Please write.

Eric Liedtke <>
Portland, OR USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 16:44:58 (PST)
Well. . . . . . ?
What now?
This is the part we struggle with, and are devoted to answering through thought clubs.
Anyone interested in the Portland area please write.

Eric Liedtke <>
Portland, OR USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 16:36:48 (PST)
Ishmael revisted the poorly explained history of the world. We enjoyed the thought provoking lessons of Ishmael. We learned and we are trying to teach to others how to save the world.
Jerry and Tracy Summers <>
AZ USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 15:28:30 (PST)
Wow. I never realized before how much we have gotten into. Thanks to this novel, I understand life and how precious it is. I do not believe we can entirely change our way of life, but, with the help of Ishmael, we can alter it for the better. I'm going to try my best to help the world become a better place.
Deborah Grant <>
Abbotsford, Canada - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 15:01:54 (PST)
Humility and being "a part of" Nature are keys to my spiritual journey. I am intrigued by the statement that leavers don't have problems with addiction, mental illness etc. Is this true?
Kirk Z. <>
Atlanta, GA USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 09:11:18 (PST)
My thinking has been rearranged
Greg Lewis <>
Syracuse, NY USA - Monday, January 12, 1998 at 04:56:40 (PST)
I am a student studying biology,specifically animal behavior. I have always worked with animals and see their importance in our world. Ishmael has helped me look at the human species in a new way and also helped me sdefine my thoughts reguarding our place on this earth.
Nancy Lorimer <>
San Diego, Ca. USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 23:24:46 (PST)
Ishmael is the most thought-provoking book I have read in recent years. I often feel imprisoned in our way of life but lack the knowledge to change. Ishmael has not provided me with that knowledge but has made me feel less alone. I believe it is almost too late for us and realize that while this is terrifying, it's not really a bad thing. Hopefully we will not take the entire world into ruin with us.
Alissa Erin Cruser <>
Batavia, Oh USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 14:32:55 (PST)
We have a responsibility now. Ishmael had a powerful idea. This idea must be kept a silent, invisible, dagger, aimed at the heart of Taker society. It must not become a radical, non-realistic, terrorist, violent, and unorganized attack. It must remain organized, silent, and non-violent. I feel that my new responsibility is to reccomend Ishmael to anyone who I can find that THINKS. The idea must be spread - and it must gain power - quickly, silently, and invisibly, if anything is to be done. The clock is ticking - but its not too late.
Michael Britt <>
Charlottesville, VA USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 14:00:08 (PST)
Many people have written to this website over the past 3 months but few have received responses from us. Please be patient with us…your messages HAVE been received! I apologize for the very long delay in responding to you, but we have been hard at work on several new projects, including new books, a new website, and a new organization: FuturePositive: Foundation for a New Worldview. The second half of its name pretty well summarizes its purpose: to promulgate a new world view specifically the worldview articulated in the works of Daniel Quinn, of course. Among other things, the foundation, centered in Houston, will sponsor:

· An interactive website providing a forum for discussion, a source of information and learning, and an opportunity for participants to connect with others of like mind.
· An educational center where Daniel intends to make himself available for an hour or two on an almost daily basis to those who want to study with him. The center will offer a reading room where members can use computers, books, videotapes, and audiotapes.
· An international conference planned for the spring of 1999, to provide the basis and originate the network for ongoing regional and local conferences and further national and international conferences.
· Development of products, materials, or other resources that will provide teachers with supplementary curriculum assistance. Production and publication of newsletters, brochures, tapes, books, CD ROMs, teachers' guides, discussion guides, and other materials.
· Volunteer projects that will enable members to participate in the foundation's initiatives.

Perhaps, most importantly, FuturePositive will offer something that readers have been asking for from the beginning: the opportunity to participate in furthering the new world vision that attracted them to Daniel's work in the first place.

We'll keep you posted! And keep an eye on the FuturePositive and Ishmael websites!

Alan Thornhill <>
Houston, TX USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 10:48:17 (PST)
The world has been unfair in our socialization process. It is time to get back to the origins of where we came from, and give up this race for supposed betterment that we'll never win.
Christena Johnston <>
Goshen, NY USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 09:34:22 (PST)
i recieved daniel quinns "my ishmael" for christmas.

it is so wonderful. mr. quinn brings up some very interesting points. julie (the narrator of this book) is a very vivid character...i like her better than alan (the narrator of Ishmael).

at ANY rate, i am continuing on my journey...physical as well as mental...and i am passing on the word. blessed be.

shannon merl <>
kansas city, mo USA - Sunday, January 11, 1998 at 09:30:03 (PST)
Well ?

Who's ready for Quinns solution ?
I don't hear any discusion about what is recomended in B ! Ready ? Starting tomorrow we grow progressively less food and let the world sort it out ! Remeber food=people=food
Ready ?

Mark Bentley <>
USA - Saturday, January 10, 1998 at 21:10:09 (PST)
I am currently re-reading Ishmael and enjoying it. College life allows for time to explore new perspectives, and I think many others are taking advantage of the opportunity. It's too bad conventional education doesn't offer these perspectives. Despite this however, I find many people who want to know and have the questions that Ismael could help answer. I personally have faith in our ability to change the world.
I invite anyone to share their oppinion with me.

Kelly Kersch <>
Moraga, CA USA - Saturday, January 10, 1998 at 21:04:43 (PST)
Dear Webmaster,
I am hoping that this posting is not deleted.
It seems that you are making this site just another creature of taker culture! I find sitting at a radioactive glowing screen depressing. I would prefer real time
human interaction but everyone I'm meeting
is "too busy" struggling in "takerville" to stop and examine what they are doing. Perhaps by using the local library computer the many who are starting to visualize the future are able to
connect with me. Since i have no e mail address, is it possible to post a phone number? You are really just excluding most
of the people of the world if you say you need an e mail connection just to connect.
Does Dan Quinn agree with this? Many years
ago, after he wrote Ishmael, a group of us
invited him to Philadelphia to speak in the
Germantown Friends Meeting House.Since then
it has taken me years to reconfigure my world view
in light of the mistaken hypnotic programming
imbued since conception. That work is not
completed but is sufficiently accomplished
that I feel ready for the next step of real
work toward creating what i'd like to experience as my life and work. How about
"leaverland" as an alternative to "Disney-----"? SO HERE I AM, using this
isolating-linear-thinking tool of takertown
to hopefully connect with others of energy
and vision. a number to reach me is 888-
226-9874 sincerely, Kyle Greenlee.
P.S. I do thank you for creating and maintaining this forum. It appears very time

Kyle Greenlee <What do you mean "this is required"? >
Maple Shade , n.j. USA - Saturday, January 10, 1998 at 09:34:20 (PST)
Have any intentional communities formed since the appearance of ISHMAEL which have goal of being much more Leaver-like than the average intentional community? I am considering visiting a struggling beginning community with many Leaver values.

Emily Noble <>
Indianapolis, IN USA - Saturday, January 10, 1998 at 07:44:40 (PST)
I read Ishmael in 1996 at a time when I was facing a lot of difficulties. Ishmeal helped me get past this time and helped me expand on my own beliefs, it also let me escape into a different world for awhile. Since reading Ishmeal I have read The Story of B and Providence and am currently reading My Ishmael. All are amazing books and I look forward to his next one. Daniel Quinn theories are universal and I believe will change the world, starting with me.
Angela Wright <>
Orangeville, Ont Canada - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 17:27:12 (PST)
Dear Fellow Friends of Ishmael,
We would like, initially, to apologize for the latest inappropriate additions to the guestbook, which were written by several of our students during an activity today. We teach an integrated curriculum consisting of geography, biology, and English. Ish mael changed us, as teachers, in many ways we will never be able to fully express; our attempt at allowing our students a similar experience has wrought quite a disturbing outcome.
The students were on an Ishmael exploration today where they spent time browsing this website. We received word that one of our students had been offended by something that had been written about her in the guestbook. When we later checked the guestbo ok for ourselves we were horrified to see the comments our students had left behind for the world to see. We did not expect our students had such low opinions of themselves that they would desire the world to know that these are the greatest thoughts the y are capable of.
We are asking the Webmaster to remove the objectionable material (January 9th, between 8:53 and 11:56 PST) as soon as possible. Again, we apologize, and we are taking the appropriate measures with the individual students who were involved.

Tom, Emily, and Skip

Tom, Emily, and Skip <>
dallas, tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 14:55:18 (PST)

This is done. The Webmaster.

today is a good day.

bill brown <>
ft. worth, tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 14:10:08 (PST)
thanks so much for writing this book. I had a great time reading it! thanks

katherine klein <not given freely>
dallas, tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 11:49:57 (PST)
Thankyou so much for giving me the opp
Clair Storey <Chanel11>
Dallas, TX USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 11:48:13 (PST)
i think this book was incredible and i think the writer has a great sense of the world. althought i agreed and disagreed with many of his points it always kept me interested at all times. i couldn't put the book down. i read this incredible masterpi ec in 3 days

sutton <bassas12 aol. com>
dallas, tx united states - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 10:42:42 (PST)
How did Ishmael survive in that room without being discovered? How did he get food? How did he get out of the glass cell?
Ian Irizarry <N/A>
Dallas, TX USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 10:42:19 (PST)
I love to read and i really enjoyed your book. I hope you had a fantastic time writing this book. Please e-mail me back so we can talk about the interesting points within the book.

your fan,

meghan derksen <plug2zig25>
dallas, tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 10:37:53 (PST)
i think that this site was interesting thanks.
mollie reardon <tacobell18>
dallas, tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 10:31:03 (PST)
read "Ishmael" and "The Story of B"... Three words...amazing,amazing,amazing!!
Anthony B <none>
Asheville, NC USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 10:18:02 (PST)
Ishmael increased my intelectual capacity, I used to think of people that loved nature as tree huggers, now I understand. As Stevie Wonder would say "I can see clearly now, the rain gone."
Nicky Chachezeray <>
Paris, Tx USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 09:13:34 (PST)
I love this book. I love this book. I love this book. I love this book
Erin Koelzer <JaybirdK>
Boulder, co USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 08:17:49 (PST)
I'm so glad that I found these books, this site. It's nice to know there are others who believe and are willing to help change the world. Thank you.
Carol Johnk <>
Coralville, IA USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 07:24:45 (PST)
Just finished (literally) "My Ishmael." Both books have profoundly affected and changed the way I veiw society (much to the annoyance of some of my professors).
Scott Neth <>
Omaha, Ne USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 03:38:03 (PST)
Can we make a change? For the better? While travelling in computer land I come across many intelligent people in sites like and D.Quinn sites with good ideas and open minds. Yet, once back in the real world I am confronted with people who, although they have good hearts, have yet to be awakened. I constantle hear comments like - "well, humankind would die off eventually anyways, why even try?" and - "what are you saying that we should all give up TV and supermarkets and this will some how make us feel more fullfilled?" This can be quite frustrating. People do want to change, it is just that everyone seems to have a different idea of what needs to be changed. There must be some way that we can bring people to the understanding that m ost of the problems (if not all of them) in our society are merely branches on a tree. This tree is our lifestyle, our culture, our system, D.Quinn calls us the Takers. Environmental Destruction, materialism, inequality, all of these things are branches on this tree of ours. Too often, too many people are involved in trying to cut down these branches in the hope that somehow these branches will never grow back, but they always do, the tree is still alive. The only thing a tree knows how to do is grow. An orange tree does not suddenly begin to gow apples. The first step is to find the roots of this tree, the roots may be hidden deep in the dirt and the grass, but they are there. Some people have discovered these roots, and have helped others to see them also, but not everyone cares to look. This tree of ours lives in a forest that was once as diverse as Los Angeles, there were Oak Trees and Pine trees, Redwood trees and so on, but now everywhere I look I see trees identical to ours. You see our tr ee has this habit of thinking itself to be more worthy of sunlight so it overshadows all the other trees and when they become weak, our tree drops its seeds into the neighboring trees soil. So another tree just like ours sprouts up and its roots intertwi ne with ours and it becomes stronger. Now the question is, how do we get gir of all these trees which have combined their roots and overtaken the forest. It seems to me as if we must find a way to uproot this tree, and plant a new one. And remember, th is tree's roots are connected to all the other trees in the forest, so if we get enough people together we could, possibaly, pull out all of the others with it. And then everyone must be ready to plant their own tree. We cannot uproot the forest until w e have found our own seeds to replace the old ones with, we can find these seeds, we just need to look at the outer rim of the forest where all the many diverse trees which once lived in this forest have been forced to go in order to escape being killed, these trees have grown weak, they have few resources left, little sunlight, poor soil, but their seeds still remain intact. We will have to be creative, some of us will have to find seeds never seen before, but the most important thing is that none of us are tricked into planting that same tree which dominated the forest today, the "taker" tree, us. If somehow it is planted again then we must think of a way to prevent it from spreading its seeds. I know this analogy is a bit weak, I am sure there are o ther ways of creating a diverse forest again, and if you can't understand a word I am saying, then I am sorry, it is late at night, and I am a little tired. I am just trying to express myself with the hopes that people will understand me and give me some feedback. And D. Quinn, thanks for showing me the roots.
Joey Koomas <>
Arcata, ca USA - Friday, January 09, 1998 at 02:25:24 (PST)
here's an option: anyone who doesn't want to live that way dies. Either way that is what will happen. But killing people just because they won't change their minds isn't the "humane" way to do things, so while we're waiting for them to bring on the big bombs we should just give DQ's books to as many people as possible. Hopefully we will win the race.Though judging by this january's weather (six 60+ days in a row) the clock is starting to tick faster. I don't believe in EL NINO.
layla lewis <>
alexandria, va USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 23:47:19 (PST)
I just put Ishmael down and in my sentimental way was very sad to see that our wise friend died in the last pages. However, I found the story very thought provoking. I will indeed look at the world from a different view point from this day forward.

I have to remark on comments on this page stating that we cannot change our culture. One writer stated that no matter how many of us read the story or shared it with others, our culture could not possibly change. I think we have to think "big picture" a nd understand that a dramatic change such as this only occurs over a long period of time. We have the opportunity to start the process --I just hope we have the time available?

SK <>
Calgary, Canada - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 21:32:33 (PST)
E-mail adress on Jan05 post should read frethnkr not frethnker.
Marv Blackman <>
Diamond Springs, Ca USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 18:48:34 (PST)
I have read three books - including the latest "My Ishmael". They are wonderful, I love the work. I have been looking for away "out" ... How can we work together to bring real prosperity back into our lives where it belongs ?

Is there a group in this area - zip code 94966 ?? Thanks.

-Herb Isenberg

Herb Isenberg <>
Sausalito, CA USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 14:25:23 (PST)
Quinn's books are like bedrock, they articulate so many truths that I have felt without knowing the story, i can return to them when I need some firm foundation for understanding what I am reacting to when feeling the difficult emotions this culture pr ovokes from me. These things are what I respond to in my own work, i feel that i adress simmilar issues, ahh screw it. The best I can muster out of myself intelligibly is that Quinn has slid into one of the top slots in a list that I mentaly keep, sort of a intellectual family tree, and that i want to thank him, congradulate him, and urge him to continue to work, please.
christopher corradino <>
jamaica plain, MA USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 13:44:33 (PST)
I just finished Ishmael. The book is certainly thought provoking. I got the same feeling reading it as I have other books like "The Fall" (Camus) "Varieties of Religious Experiences" (James). In it are expressed ideas that connect with things I alre ady knew but was never able untangle into a coherent understanding. Did you know that 70% of what we eat in the US is controlled by just 3 corporations?
Dean <>
USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 13:18:54 (PST)
Sorry, I don't officially have an email account set up yet. I live with my aunt and use her access to the web. Any way, I found the book fascinating. Particularly the references to the Bible and Adam, Cain and Abel, and the Semites. There is no doubt w e are headed for a crach; this book gives insight into why and advice on how to prevent it. Everyone should read it. Thank you.
Hunt Cairns
USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 13:16:19 (PST)
Don't have much time now, but filled with zeal after reading B. Will check up again on a faster connection to continue my self education. Emails welcomed.
Nate Johnson <>
Claremont, CA USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 12:34:13 (PST)
I don't even know what to say. I read Ishmael and My Ishmael and am currently in the middle of the Story of B. All three have had a profound impact on my life and my view of the culture we live in. As a student, I am frustrated by the fact that society seems content to ignore the problems around us rather than face and solve them. Daniel Quinn's message has given me hope that something CAN be done....and it is up to us to do it.
Melissa Hefferin <>
Evanston, IL USA - Thursday, January 08, 1998 at 11:34:35 (PST)
something needs to be done, and we are the people who need to start the change, if you have any ideas about a way out of our culture please contact me.
dennis feeney <>
canfield, o.H USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 21:19:14 (PST)
I still have to say that _Ishmael_ and its companion books have been my favorite books of all time. I'm presently reading _My Ishmael_ and one thought that keeps coming to mind is that, not only is food locked away, but those food sources that logical ly cannot have access denied from them are controlled in other ways. Very few of us would have the guts to try to forage in the woods (even if it were legal to pick plants in most of our forest lands) simply because Mother Culture teaches us that these w ild foods are potentially deathly. Even the few wild foods books I have come across contantly remind us that if we are going to eat things we find, we must be absolutely confident that we have identified the plant correctly (and often give very little in formation to work from in order to do this).
Somewhere, someone had to have a method for choosing what foods to eat...By observation (watching what the birds ate, etc) or testing (eating a small amount and waiting for ill effects) or any other number of methods. I am absolutely furious that so few so-called "resources" are available to us anymore.
Since I can remember, I've wanted to conduct an experiment in which i "disappear" onto a piece of land for a while with only a knife and a few other simple necessities to see if I can survive on my own. As I've gotten older, I've been more interested in trying it, yet at the same time, the realities of its possibility come crashing in on me. I cannot think of a SINGLE piece of land that is not owned by someone.
I am furious with the state of affairs right now. Yet, I can't think of any way short of a cataclysm that would change them within my lifetime. I can only hope that sometime within the next few generations people will have to turn to books to remember w hat today is like.

Angelica Kraushaar <>
Alexandria, LA USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 18:00:04 (PST)
Ishmael is the best book out there for the budding world saver. The more people are reached the more things can change. Thanks for giving us a new way to look at things Mr. Quinn.
Jeff Dodge <>
Golden, CO USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 15:18:54 (PST)
Hi I'm here doing an assignment for my Anthropology class at Downers Grove North High School. We just completed reading Ishmael in class, and I think this website is an excellent resource to supplement the text. I have found a great deal of interesting and useful information here. Thanks to all who have contributed to this site!
Jill Donelan <>
Downers Grove, IL USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 15:00:57 (PST)
I took KL Stoner's advice (previous post), and visited

It was a COMPLETE waste of my time. More so, I'm sure, than reading Ishmael could have possibly been a waste of hers. She insists that Quinn's message is antifeminine, and bashes him for calling culture by the title "Mother" and using the word "man" to refer to humankind (a mistake many make, especially those of Quinn's generation, and in doing so unwittingly fall into the Politically Correct Trap that Stoner and others have set). She then goes on to say that dividing humanity into two groups (takers a nd leavers) is unintelligent. Well, Ms. Stoner, what exactly have you done with your radical feminist rhetoric but widen the gap between women and men? Talk about double talk. Give me a break. If you're going to disagree with Quinn--and I myself do on many points--make it about something important, not just technicalities blown up into sexism. What a bunch of hooey.

Hannah <>
Sioux Falls, SD USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 14:00:55 (PST)
Dear Mr. Quinn
I am a 17 year old female who is greatly concerned with the environment. I'm in the middle of Ishmael right now and I am enjoying it throughly. I have so many hopes and aspirations for our environment now and in the future, and plan to take action. I'm just glad that there are other people out there who feel the same as me, and I love the fact that you are trying to educate people about what the problem is, and that there needs to be something done about it. Thanks.
Laura Ferguson

Laura Ferguson <>
Dundas, Ont Canada - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 13:50:35 (PST)
Before reading Ishmael I felt lost and confused as to the purpose of human existence and culture. I think I was like the two German students in Ishmael, feeling like I was being fed a lie. After reading the book, I finally have something true and real to beleive. I personally enjoyed Ishmael more than Story Of B.
Evan Zelezny
Teaneck, NJ USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 12:47:34 (PST)
I read Ishmael, and it was probably one of the worst uses of time I've ever had the misfortune to spend.

See my response at if you're an unquestioning DQ fan.

Peace and Enlightenment to All (we need it)

Kay Stoner <>
Boston, MA USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 12:25:20 (PST)
Intriguing! A visionary tale, well worth the time spent reading, and a gathering of diverse folk trying in their many ways to work out the "how to"s of a quiet revolution! This site bears watching. Myself, I seem to have wandered to a similar set of co nclusions over the years by way of diverse/convergent paths. Be interesting to see where the journey now takes us. If time enough there is, mayhap the human species will grow up enough to find/accept our place in the grand scheme of things. Ah well, as th e ancient chinese curse goes; May you live in interesting times! Bright Blessings to all.
Brian Caimbeul <>
Jasper, Ab Canada - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 11:47:20 (PST)
I'm not even finished with Ishmael and I just had to write. My wife and I went and bought Ishmael last night (January 6th, 1998) and I stayed up until 2:00am reading it. Lately I've been very depressed and I recently (before I read Ishmael) figured o ut why: I'm sick of being a Taker. I'm sick of being a member of Mother Culture. I love people, but I hate our culture. I hate the way it goads one into buying, using, abusing. Pleasure, pleasure, pleasure!! Only it's not really pleasure at all it's torture. So few people (are there any?) in our culture have balance in their lives. Is that because our culture makes it impossible? I think so. I can't wait to get home tonight so I can finish Ishmael and then straight on to MQ's other works. I feel wonderful, alive, apprehensive and terrified all at once.

David Ober

David Ober <>
Riverside, CA USA - Wednesday, January 07, 1998 at 09:35:51 (PST)
if you are truly interested in benefitting from DQ's works in the long run, i strongly recommend taking notes as you read. Not the first time, but the second or third. Tedious as it sounds, it has helped me organize my thoughts and questions and hopes- and there are so many of those.
keep sharing, everyone.

Jessica Wade-Murphy <>
MI USA - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 21:25:34 (PST)
We live our lives according to our vision of it. When we glimpse the truth every now and then, we need to adjust our lives as well. It is time to begin.
Mike S <>
chicago, il USA - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 20:58:29 (PST)
Summed up most of my own thoughts which were rarely excepted, but put them logically in order so that the truth became undeniable.
Dillon Mahoney <>
Goffstown, NH USA - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 15:59:27 (PST)
I'm sure this will be lost in the landslide of praises for Daniel Quinn's books, but I am a freshmen student and have been reading "My Ishmael" and I am upset with a lot of the things that are part of this book. First of all, how does the author know that the tribal way of life was so great, was he there? I don't think so! there is an implication that we are supossed to feel like we"new this all along," this book is not nessisarily the aswer just waiting to be discovered, and then a gorilla guru will save us.
. I am willing to listen to any idea, but when it is presented as fact, and implies that anyone who doesn't believe it is supid, it makes me feel as though it has been an insult to my intelligence.

Erica <>
Beaverton, OR USA - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 14:26:44 (PST)
I've been reading your comments and questions and ideas and answers and it gives me hope almost as much as Ishmael did. I like many of you refuse to sit idle and watch the world around us crumble and fall. I am doing what I can to share the book wit h others and to live in a way that is in accordance with the laws of nature. Please keep teaching and don't give up. In any way you can, show others that there is hpe for a better life and hope for the future.
Elise Parker <>
Calgary, Alberta Canada - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 11:56:27 (PST)
I've been reading your comments and questions and ideas and answers and it gives me hope almost as much as Ishmael did. I like many of you refuse to sit idle and watch the world around us crumble and fall. I am doing what I can to share the book wit h others and to live in a way that is in accordance with the laws of nature. Please keep teaching and don't give up. In any way you can, show others that there is hpe for a better life and hope for the future.
Elise Parker <>
Calgary, Alberta Canada - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 11:53:24 (PST)
Ishmael was excellently written. I observe
this guestbook, and realize the magnitude
of readers that have read one, and often
more than one, of Daniel Quinn's books. And
one question presses my mind. Where do the
proceeds from all these books go? I don't
care to entertain the thought that Quinn
consumes it all in a "taker" fashion. I hope
they go to support people who are struggling
in this taker world.

Jennifer Watterson <>
Sinking Spring, PA USA - Tuesday, January 06, 1998 at 07:26:45 (PST)
Blindly, I just posted without reading through the previous. It is an overwhelming joy to see all the youth who posted, who care! I too, see the world ahead of you.

I still see a lot of fear in everyone wondering "how can we do this", we can, but as the books state one step at a time. We can't wipe away thousands of years of Takers, but we can begin. Teach!

And remember, as stated in "My Ishmael" those buzz words like "cult" and "gang" that make us think "bad." The most challenging is thinking beyond "Mother Culture." I commend everyone here for exploring past everything that has been engraved in us since our being. It is not easy to think on those terms very long, however, every moment we think past Mother Culture is another eye opened.

Though I am inspired, and FEEL this, I need more on God, God has to be in all of this???

Thanks everyone, I feel like we are all friends here.

candace rector <>
Atlanta, GA USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 18:20:35 (PST)
Just finished "My Ishmael" in one sitting. I can't seem to find any other alternative than unlocking the food, can you?

One question, Tribes had religion? Correct? What would Ishmael say, or ask to offer knowledge on religion?

Also, anyone know of any Ishmael/Quinn IRC chat rooms?


Candace Rector <>
Atlanta, GA USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 18:01:43 (PST)
My thought was to take a tribal journey in the spring. Walking from San Diego to the Washington border and living on the fringe of society with 7 to 10 other concerned humans.The main focus of the journey will test the Calif State Constitution interpre tation of article 1--- declaration of rights."ALL PEOPLE ARE FREE BY NATURE AND INDEPENDENT AND HAVE INALIENABLE RIGHTS".Sorta like traveling street philosophers testing the creed with the same inductive reasoning process that Socrates used to start the s chool of the Socratic reasoning method. The legal system will use the deductive reasoning system and its aim is to prove us that we have no rights via the paradox of its own interpretation. The aim of the quest is to trap civilization in its own circular reasoning process. WE will sleep on public land, eat what civilization throws away (not literally) and any time a conflict arises between the tribe and civilization as far as sleeping on state land ,we may go to jail and at this time test the constitution .Since civilization has encroched on all land and does not allow foot traffic in certain locations,we also will test that situation.

At the present most of the people who live on the streets are rejected by society and most for one reason or the other have personal problems such as psycological disorders,alcoholism, schizophrenia, etc.They have no control over their lives,therefor fee lings of inadequacy are abounding.Unlike our street heroes of today we are seeking control of our lives.When I posted this idea on the Ish site I received two responses from young individuals who were seeking adventure.This was very encouraging because it is the hope of the new revolution. My idea was to start the inital movement with a cross section of people,such as A writer, so we could document our travels,maybe a di senfranchised lawyer to advise on legal matters when they arise.Someone who is famili ar with general knowledge of medicine, anthropologist, sociologist ,psychologist, and philosophers would be wecome. The problem with this scenario is that I doubt anyone would give up his or her present lifestyle to set a precedence for the good cause.I'm 50 years old and have been married for 22 years and if I embark on this quest, it would cause hardships between my wife and children,but is somthing I feel strongly about and therefor would make the journey. I welcome evey thought on this idea.

Marv Blackman <>
Diamond springs , Ca My thoyght was to take a tribal journey in the USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 17:19:39 (PST)
I'm still in the process of reading and re-reading the books(Ishmeal,The story of B,and My Ishmeal). I'm still trying to digest it all. These books and others I've been exposed to about the possible Solution(s) to the current breakdown of our culture h ave given me hope, in the form of a vision. This vision of how to live is growing in many people, my friends,family,neighbors,my teachers. We all are ready for a positive change.Thanks
Gregory Alexander <>
Norman, OK 73069 - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 17:10:44 (PST)
I am grateful for the teachings of my elders
and the old ways to respect our brothers and sisters of the earth and beyond. I believe Mother Theresa said it best when asked if she believed what she was doing would make a difference, and I paraphrase,
"I only do what I can do, if everybody did what they could, we would not have a problem."

Jerry "Redwolf"-Cherokee <>
Taos, NM USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 16:59:19 (PST)
DQ, in Ishmael and My Ishmael, has eloquently voiced thoughts that have inwardly plagued me for years. What an immense feeling of relief mixed with a burning desire to discover creative alternative lifestyles within our culture. At the moment, post re ading, I feel exhausted and unable to think creatively. The idea that change is possible, and that I can have an impact upon this change, is powerful and exciting. I am very interested in hearing what those who have been inspired by these books have to offer. We are indeed standing on the shoulders of giants, where can we go from here?
Ideas? Thoughts? Write me!

Rebecca Kutzner <>
Belleville, MI USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 14:12:35 (PST)
Close to the most important bottom line I can think of!!!!! WOW!!
George W. Hylkema <>
Balboa, Ca USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 12:52:47 (PST)
Ishmael and B have changed my perceptions, yet I do not know how to live in light of what is most real to me.
Michelle Tolini <>
St. Petersburg, FL USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 12:34:19 (PST)
Interested to read other perspectives.
Ben Alder <>
Washington, D.C, USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 11:12:40 (PST)
As an Assistant Camp Director for a children's summer camp, Ishmael is stirring in me the desire to find a way to help our kids make fundamental changes that will begin to turn the tide of environmental destruction in favor of the environment. In shor t, I have an earnest desire not only to save the world, but to help others find the desire as well. "Ishmael" and sequels are novels, but very provocatively non-fictional upon entering the brain of the reader.
Andrew Roberts <>
Deer Harbor, WA USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 10:47:03 (PST)
Thank you, Ishmael, for teaching others what you know. That there is hope is the best lesson, I think.
Michael <>
Springfield, MO USA - Monday, January 05, 1998 at 07:17:42 (PST)
I have listened to Ishmael since he has come to us; I will continue. Ishmael {DQ} has given me answers where the hoogy moogy never did. Dayton,Oh.
Marsha Brown <>
Dayton, Oh USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 22:15:03 (PST)
:) my ishmael is exactly the type of sequel i've been wishing for ever since i read ishmael, learning that the gorilla had died. it almost felt like there was so much more that could have been learned. needless to say, i was not disappointed.

both books have touched me deeply, and while i'm still contemplating so many things in my mind that have arisen from the book's tellings...i know that i will forever be moved by quinn's entrancing words.

thank you for opening up my eyes...

andrea <>
mississauga, ON canada - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 21:59:06 (PST)
Before reading B and Ishmael I felt a certain contempt for this society, but I still couldnt quite put my finger on what it was I believed and why it was I beleived it. Since being introduced to Quinn's works I have a tighter grip on what I believe. Hi s books have helped bring me closer to my beliefs and have yet to not touch base on some part I have a serious problem Ishmael it was the specieist aspect of their society, in B it was the hypocrital aspects of their religions, and so far as i h ave read in My Ishmael it is my disgust of the institution which they call education...which is ironic since i seem to be enrolled in college.


Mike Cushman <>
Worcester, MA USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 21:04:25 (PST)
I am 14 and would like to just say that there are more than two kinds of people in the world. The human race is not separated into peple who agree with ishmael and those who don't. I am not saying that the book claims this to be true, but the populatio n who hasn't read the book is not a disillusioned gaggled of idiots brainwashed my "mother culture."
Erica <>
Beaverton, OR USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 19:27:52 (PST)
Ishmael was awesome! The story of B was awesome! I just got My Ishmael and it too is awesome. Keep me on your mailing lists....
Manny Norse <>
Jefferson, OR USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 19:08:20 (PST)
Just finished reading Ishmael, and found it to be one of the most intriguing interpretations of history I've seen. Can't wait to read other books by Quinn.
Bill Johnson <>
Grand Rapids, MI USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 18:21:26 (PST)
We made ourselves exempt from a sustainable lifestyle because we have misused our intelligence. Instead of using it as an survival tool, an instinct that allowed us to hunt and build shelter instead of being equipped with poison fangs or giant wings, we have used it to create a new way of life that was never "meant to be." It seems an impossible task, to enlighten the minds of six billion people. I'll do my part if you do yours: l tell other teenagers who feel the same way I do, hopelessly confused, that they do not need to have eating disorders or get drunk every weekend in order to achieve some kind of human connection in this dehumanized culture, that contentment is not achieved through a high-paying job; I write of the true reasons behind the "m odern human condition" in every paper, college application essay, etc.; I give copies of Daniel Quinn's books for gifts. What more is to be done? In "My Ishmael," Quinn states that this must not be an organized revolution; if you can't reach a million, then reach one. (But I know you can reach a million.)
Mary Lawrence <>
Seattle, WA USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 17:09:37 (PST)
if every polititian lived by "the law of life", if every Father in every dioses around the world realized the new world vision...what would that mean? anarchy? but anarchy is a horrid chaos, would any species, let alone man, be able to survive in it? of course, every species BUT man lives in a total abscence of government-and this is bad? this is what mother culture has told you, because you are man, you are the gods' pinnacle of evolution and you should not live as other species live. because you a re man, you should live "better". i'm not saying that what works well for wombats to live works well for man to live, of course not, but all species are governed by the laws of competition, etc. so why have we become exempt?
Seth Kolon <>
Lawrence, MI USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 10:41:12 (PST)
I have given to and shared this book with more people than I can count. The inital reaction is usually the same..."polite intrest....Oh! it's about a gorilla that wants to save the world??? Sure!!.., I'll read it...first-chance-I-get" The reaction aft er they read it (and they all do) is that someone has turned the lights on in a very dark closet for the first time.
Mike Blackledge <>
Center Point, Tx USA - Sunday, January 04, 1998 at 07:07:52 (PST)
Daniel Quinn's books gave me an understanding and direction for what I felt was a hatred of humanity and depressed hopelessness. If only every person of this culture could open her eyes to the cause of the chaotic fall and desire to "open the prison g ates."
Mary Lawrence <>
Medina, WA USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 20:44:43 (PST)
Sometimes I feel like the previous commentor who stated they agree with the message of Ishmael and My Ishmael and at the same time find it difficult to know what is expected from each individual and themselves. It definitely appears at times the probl em is to big! rarely does the problem seem small. If most people are living their lives as takers and believe in their heart they are living the "right" way, what conviencing mechanism is available to educate alternatives. It seems everytime I try somet hing in my own community, I'm branded a communist or radical socialist. It doesn't feel as if people are taking our planet and other things seriously. I feel very much alone and discouraged over the productivity age and wish very much that people valued different things instead of money. I'm tired and cry alot.
James Davis <>
Provincetown, Ma USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 19:03:21 (PST)
movement from point a to point b requires?
thought provoking,
would have enjoyed the story more if author would have been more intelligent and thought through the questions that ishmael asked of him.

jeffrey price <>
duluth, mn USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 18:09:58 (PST)
Since Jennifer from Shillington responded to my comment, I suppose I should further explain my reactions. I said that these books won't change the world, and that's what I meant. These books will stimulate thought. Once thought is stimulated, though , then what? You say to change my habits. Exactly what does that mean? Am I supposed to remove myself from society and Mother Culture completely? I couldn't do that if I wanted to, and anyway that's not Ishmael's point. Some have responded on this pa ge that they were going to start tribes, etc. and I just don't think that will have any effect whatever. So should I think about my actions? Teach my children to respect the earth? Absolutely. Obviously. But, beyond that....that's where I'm stuck. I just feel like it's too big. And it is. So now what?
Hannah <>
Sioux Falls, SD USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 17:12:21 (PST)
Traci A. Owens <>
Decatur, GA USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 14:01:41 (PST)
The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. The changing of a culture begins with the changing of one life. Use your creativity, the courage of your convictions, the example of your life. Deep in your being you know what is wrong and what you need to do to change it. Begin the journey! Now! Today! The ones will add up. The "tribes" will form.

Daryl R. Jacobsen

Daryl R. Jacobsen <>
Sacramento, CA USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 14:00:09 (PST)
My Mother and I are crazy about Ishmael. We are currently searching for B. Help us find/be her/him.
Traic A. Owens <>
Decatur, GA USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 13:09:53 (PST)

I have just finished both Ishmael and B. I found both to be provacative and valuable. I want to thank DQ as he is being referred to here for his contribution to the conversation going on right now on this planet as to to how we might have arrived here. I find some of his thoughts to be more rigorously supported than others. I am just a little uncomfortable when they are taken as more than possibilities. For example the asertion that Taker culture only appearred in one place and took over seems to be only one of several possiblities. Anotherwould be that it developed in several locations in Eurasia and spread. This second version of the expansion of Taker culture would however produce a different take on whether or not it was inevitable that a culture such as this would eventualy evolve to be tested as an experiment doomed to fail from the outset. Secondly the evolution of spiritual technologies other than animism as it is reffered to in B is not even dealt with with the same rigor as the discussioon of th e possible origin of our culture. It is clear that DQ does not have any real knowledge of Buddhism for example when he lumps it into salvational spiritual systems. I have spent many years with in native american life ways both survival and spiritual and k now intimatly about what DQ calls animism andf I also know of Taoism and Buddhism and can argue far more rigorously that they have nothing to do with the shallow discussion that he brings to bear in that regard. I am pesonaly convinced that it is exactly because of theinability of animism to exgage certian parts of the emergent human consciousness that other spiritual systems developed. It is exciting to read so many peoples writing and thoughts in this conversation tho.

Thank You DQ for your contribution to this the most important of all conversations. I look forward to being able to nowengage other people around this more freely and with a common starting point to begin from.

Mark Bentley <>
Boulder, Co USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 08:48:49 (PST)
I am teaching ISHMAEL to college freshmen and they find it very disturbing--the novel has provoked much thought and discussion and some initial despair. I look forward to MY ISHMAEL's paperback appearance so I can include it along with ISHMAEL. The s equel adds very insightful comments about education and greater depth about Taker culture. Daniel Quinn is our generation's Thoreau.
steven strang <>
Seekonk, MA USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 06:38:56 (PST)
Evoking societal change is a difficult undertaking even when we collectively have some ideas about what the form of that change should be. Today Ishmael and B stir the emotions of our need and demonstrate the degree to which we are off-course but leav e us, as individuals, to invent our alternatives.

Let us remember that in every moment we make individual choices and the transformative power of our thoughts ... This is the mechanism that manifests our current physical realities. As each of us elects to think and choses to live our lives differently, so we will begin the process of manifesting a new reality.

AND, let us remember the negative effect that proselitizing (sp?) has on others. When the pupil is ready, they will seek a mentor. If your personal life actions demonstrate this path, that desiring pupil will find you.

Thank you DQ for bringing these important thoughts to all of us. Namaste.

Jenna Baker-Wexler <>
Ellicott City, MD USA - Saturday, January 03, 1998 at 05:09:34 (PST)
it's been a rough road, but somehow there's a glimmer of hope shining through the foggy eyes of the youth. i'm standing on the edge of the beginning of my life, at 18 it seems too big and too scary to even want to conquer. ishmael changed that. it d oesn't matter that for the moment i can't walk, and it doesn't matter i'm confined to my house. i have eyes, ears, thoughts, hands, and a voice to spread the word. and a means. reading through the guestbook makes it clear that people feel the way i fee l, and i thank professor hatcher for telling me to read this book. something MUST be done, and it appears it's being done, one person at a time. if each person can teach one's a great start.
jessica <>
santa fe, nm USA - Friday, January 02, 1998 at 21:11:23 (PST)
Please thank Ishmael for posing such a question: Do you wish to save the world?

I wish I knew how I could do that after a lifetime of being a successful Taker.

Jerome & Tineke Russell <>
Burlington, VT USA - Friday, January 02, 1998 at 18:32:33 (PST)
I direct a state agency in Minnesota and am looking for others with administrative roles/responsibilities who want to take the spirit and perspective of Ishmael into the difficult/active world of public organizations, where many go to work every day wo ndering what to do about the world around them--and wondering, as I do, how to bring more spirit to this organization.
David O'Fallon <>
MPLS, MN USA - Friday, January 02, 1998 at 10:05:39 (PST)
An insightful, eloquent masterpiece. ISHMAEL is a book for the ages.
Tom B. Miyata <>
St. Louis, Mo USA - Friday, January 02, 1998 at 09:21:32 (PST)
I am working on an occult forum, Internet
Occult Information Desk.

Looking forward to helpš the World in

Ver Net Nubti

Claudio Zic Solis

mailing list:

Claudio Zic Solis <>
Venexia, it Italia, Veneto - Friday, January 02, 1998 at 00:02:19 (PST)
I've written up some thoughts on Quinn's books and posted them to rec.arts.books and alt.postmodern. I will also make them available on my webpage. Would appreciate any comments.

David Swanson <>
Charlottesville, VA USA - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 22:19:43 (PST)
Have recently read Ishmael, with great joy and relief. Good to know that we`re not alone in our concern at the state of our relationship with the planet. To have the issues so clearly encapsulated in Ishmael, to have something to get hold of, and be ab le to say, "this is what's going on," somehow is the start of hope for me. Knowing the question is the beginning of the answer. And now, reading what D Q is beginning to pull together gives fresh hope. The first brick is laid as he says, the pebble has dropped and the ripples move out. It's incredible, the sense of relief. I've had a teacher/mentor for fifteen years until he became ill two years ago, and much of what I learned over that time has been about not only our relationship with each other, but also with the planet, and the universe itself. It's been quite lonely for a while. There's obviously lots more out there. So, hello.
Susan Shepheard <>
Auckland, New Zealand - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 19:29:13 (PST)
Have recently read Ishmael, with great joy and relief. Good to know that we`re not alone in our concern at the state of our relationship with the planet. To have the issues so clearly encapsulated in Ishmael, to have something to get hold of, and be ab le to say, "this is what's going on," somehow is the start of hope for me. Knowing the question is the beginning of the answer. And now, reading what D Q is beginning to pull together gives fresh hope. The first brick is laid as he says, the pebble has dropped and the ripples move out. It's incredible, the sense of relief. I've had a teacher/mentor for fifteen years until he became ill two years ago, and much of what I learned over that time has been about not only our relationship with each other, but also with the planet, and the universe itself. It's been quite lonely for a while. There's obviously lots more out there. So, hello.
Susan Shepheard <>
Auckland, New Zealand - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 19:26:33 (PST)
Mind expanding. Dare we hope its not too late for SpaceshipEarth? I have bee talking to everyone who will listen about the ideas in "My Ishmael" after receiving the book for Christmas from my son.

However, as much as I loved the book and agreed with the ideas, I was a little unsettled about the comments about the Branch Davidians. Something in my gut (and I don't think it was Mother Culture) tells me those guys were dangerous nut cases. Maybe it was the stockpiling of weapons... And even if I'm wrong and they were onto something, I think their response to the ATF was crazy.

All that aside, I think the ideas in the book are beautiful and I am moved and thrilled by reading it.

Gayle Renee <>
Austin, Tx USA - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 17:57:56 (PST)
comments welcome -
Heather Reid <>
North Vancouver, BC Canada - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 17:29:57 (PST)
Ishmael offers a wealth of valuable information to anyone willing to spend some time to better themselves and the world in which we live. Daniel Quinn (in all of his books) offers wisdom and seemingly objective insight into the fundemental problems wi th our soceity. His work has been primary to my development as an enlightened being, providing the first step (as any of us who've been through AA know ) realization of a problem. We live in a society which goes against or fights every natural law. The next step will be different for everyone. I have been fortunate to cross paths with other wonderfully insightful beings conveying similar and broadening viewpoints. If you like the message contained in Quinn's work may I also suggest the Kryon channell ings of Lee Carroll. This is the first book to evoke a similar response to that which I got from reading Ishmael. Pass on the Love.
Heather Reid <>
North Vancouver, BC Canada - Thursday, January 01, 1998 at 17:12:16 (PST)
I have been driven by the force of the Universe to save the lives of many including myself. After reading both 'Ishmael' and 'The Story of B',I have been given a new birth. I have been wanting to reach out to those with the same desire to heal... Ple ase e-mail me and keep me posted!!!
Lita Fierro <>
colorado springs, co USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 20:00:40 (PST)
I read Ismael as a recommendation from a friend of mine. She read it for a discussion class at her University. I passed on the book to others who have also enjoyed it and passed it on. After reading this book a whole new perception of the world dawned on me. After reading B this perception has grown into a new outlook on the world culture and history in general. My hope is that others will read Mr. Quinn's work, and serious discussion can ensue. Only after changes in personal beliefs and general percep tion can changes be made.
Ginny <>
Evansville, IN USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 19:03:52 (PST)
Loved Ishmael and The Book of B. Want to know more about what you are doing to save our world.
Statton Linxweiler <>
Evanston, IL USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 18:57:06 (PST)
I have had difficulty explaining some of my views to those I perceive are obsessed with consumption. Now I tell friends to read "Ishmael." If anyone takes my advice, we'll have a lot to discuss.
Ken Barrows <>
Washington, DC USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 17:58:54 (PST)
Best explanation of the Tree of Life/Tree of Knowledge, Cain/Abel mysteries I've ever encountered. I will be recommending your book in my monthly magazine. Do I need permission to reprint portions?
Gershon Siegel <>
Santa Fe, NM USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 12:00:39 (PST)
Trust youth. Empower the young of this planet with these ideas and watch the world change.
Matthew Ferraro <>
Pebble Beach, Ca USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 08:14:07 (PST)
Games People Play --
I noticed the game my niece and nephew were
playing after Christmas -- it was called LIFE
and the object is to make as much money as
possible. During the game, various things happen, but everything is translated into a monetary amount. That is the real object:
to have the most money when you retire.
Period. Notice that it is not called:
"An Approach to Life" or "The Monetary Approach to Life." No -- just plain, LIFE.

Then I began thinking about all the other games that I have enjoyed....and in just about every case, the object is to:
1. Destroy your opponents.
2. Make the most money.
3. Get there the fastest.

There are some more recent computer games like Adventure, Manhole, Cosmic Osmo, Myst, Riven, that seem a little more to be about the experience itself rather than an inculcation of the Taker culture.


John Thomas <>
Yorktown, NY USA - Wednesday, December 31, 1997 at 07:21:12 (PST)
I read Ishmael when it first came out a few years ago and my immediate reaction was wanting to buy hundreds of copies and grab people randomly on streetcorners - just grab them by the lapels and say here! read this! now! I haven't read the other book s yet, but I have a vacation coming up soon, so I can look forward to reading them soon. I don't have a clue how our big story here on earth will turn out, but I thank Mr. Quinn for bringing so much light and clarity to help us find our way.
Miriam Dyak <>
Seattle, WA USA - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 22:50:36 (PST)
Someone who signed this guestbook said something about bringing about change. Obviously, it's not as simple as 'Let's walk out into the woods and start a tribe.' What we CAN do is teach. Teach our children. Teach our friends. As Ishmael said, "You may only reach one, but that one may reach a million." This website is the beginning of reaching the nearly 6 billion people of this world.
- Luna.

Luna <>
- Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 14:28:42 (PST)
I found out about ISHMAEL in an interview with Mr. Quinn that appears in the December 1997 issue of THE SUN. I can't describe how profoundly the book has affected me. I have the feeling that it'll be starting point for "the work" I've felt I need to do for quite some time. Thank you, Mr. Quinn--and you, fellow readers.
Kathleen Shannon <>
Warwick, NY USA - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 14:25:29 (PST)
I have been transformed overnight. I recieved Ishmael 4 days ago and have had to put it down at least half a dozen times, for I couldn't read through my tears. I have had a huge amount of hate durring the 15 years I have been alive and reading Ishmael has finnally helped me realize why I am so angry. I have never been able to turn on the radio, television etc without feeling that something needs to change, and finally I realize what it is. There is not one person in my life who has not been affected by my intensity and the meaning of this message. Thank you Mr. Quinn, you gave me a purpose, my life is utterly devoted to helping the Takers free themselves from Mother Culture.

Shannon Bundock <>
Smithers, BC Canada - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 14:17:56 (PST)
CAL <nivlac>
watertown, ny USA - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 13:22:42 (PST)
Although I'm only 14, or perhaps because I'm
only 14, Ishmael really struck a cord in me.
I have long felt the way Julie does in just
"wanting to get away." I realize that apathy
has long been considered the "disease of our
youth," but after reading these two books I
also realize that it doesn't have to be this
way. It is not a requirement that teenagers
must be unhappy and grow up feeling alone and
unfulfilled in their lives. I think that
when at least a few of understand that we have
a choice about how we live, we can begin to
break the cycle. The best way to do this is
obviously to get more people to read the
books,which I have already recommended to a
few of my friends that I hope will value them
as much as I do.
our lives

Caitlin Wells <>
Macon, GA USA - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 11:37:14 (PST)
I've just finished "My Ishmael." Once again, I am left speechless by the eloquence with which Mr. Quinn is able to express what has unsettled my soul since I became an atheist at the tender age of nine. I have always felt something missing in my spirit uality, but I also knew it was not God, or any deity at all. I see now why this sense of tribe is so incredibly important, and why our society is so deeply troubled by the lack of it. It is astonishing how completely simplistic the answers seem to be, yet we need a silverback to uncover these answers.

I feel I need to respond to Hannah from Sioux Falls, though. I think you may have missed the broader answer. No, Mr. Quinn (Ishmael) does not present THE answer to the problems the Takers have created. But that's because he can't. Just as the Leavers kno w there is no one right way for all people to live, so Ishmael knows there is no one right way for all people to effect a cultural change. This is why he insists upon being creative. Through my creative solution, I will be able to change my world and teac h my children how to change theirs. As a college instructor, I will be able to plant the seeds in my students for them to change their own lives, too. If each person who reads any of the books is able to change his or her own life, then we will have at le ast begun the revolution. But sitting and thinking, "I knew this would happen," is the worst thing we can do to start the revolution. Just change your own habits. Do it for yourself and your children or your family, and let that be the "shot heard 'round the world."

Jennifer Whistler <>
Shillington, PA USA - Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 07:32:52 (PST)

changing the world is not the same as changing the viewpoint of each Taker inhabitant of that world.

I have a difficult time convincing myself it is possible to turn around the global viewpoint, but I guess there is hope because it has happened once before!

Jessica Wade-Murphy <>
USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 21:37:41 (PST)
Along with a handful of other books, Ishmael changed my life forever. Suddenly a fork in the road appeared where there was none before. Reject the 'inertia' arguement that many resort to when saying things cannot change - do what you can (c'mon, be c reative!) and live with a clear(er) conscience. How could I do anything less after reading these books?
Michael Hopfenspirger <>
Omaha, NE USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 17:55:10 (PST)
Having just finished "My Ishmael" (after "Ishmael" and "The Story of B"), I feel like I have a little more direction. My thanks and everlasting gratitude to Daniel Quinn, for showing me and thousands like me that there is a possibility for a different life, if not for us, then for our generations to come.

Michael Geske <>
Takoma Park, MD USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 17:44:02 (PST)
Hmmmm. Ok, so I read Ishmael and B, what? Even if EVERYONE read them, then what? You can't (no matter how people talk about "starting a tribe" somewhere, or creating more "programs," or even "changing visions") just snap your fingers and b ecome a Leaver. It can't work that way. It reminds me of missionary evangelism, the Christian attitude that Buddhists or Jews or Hindus can be "converted." Your culture, your religion, IS you, no matter how much you hate it or want to change it. And, s ince I was born into a Christian Taker society, I will be fundamentally Christian and Taker until I die. Even if I eat only bean sprouts and live in a mud hut in the unspoiled wilderness. Even if I call myself an animist, and even if I call myself a Leave r. Some things can't be changed. Even by books as powerful as these. And they are powerful tools to stimulate thought, but that's exactly what they're limited to--thought. I can recommend the book until I'm blue in the face, I could teach B's theory t o everyone I know, and what I'd end up with is a lot of thoughtful friends, a few engaging arguments, and a culture that's still failing horribly. Thought is good, don't get me wrong, but the only thing that's going to CHANGE things is action. Until I s ee action, I'll sit here and think. I'll think until our culture blows itself up, and say "I thought this would happen" when the ship finally sinks. Quinn presents the problems very well, but I don't see his powerful mind coming up with any real solution s for the problems facing our culture. Maybe that's because there aren't any.
Hannah <>
Sioux Falls, SD USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 14:34:52 (PST)
brilliant! Ishmael and B blew me away. I am
still trying to digest all of the ideas and
cannot wait to get a copy of My Ishmael. Absolutely brilliant!

Daryl Rivest <>
edmonton, ab canada - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 11:41:37 (PST)
Your books have inspired me to create some poetry of the raddest rhymeset imaginable!!
I will spread your message with my voice and my soul and they will know that our day has come.
Would love to share more poetry with you if you are interested in hearing it.
the power of the spoken word - JJ3

B <>
Jacksonville, FL USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 11:38:40 (PST)
I use Microsoft Explorer -- is this the info you need for the URL?

It is more than just a time to change -- it is the only time we have left to change... to change our mental models, to change our "right/wrong" polar thinking, to change by taking responsibility instead of sluffing it off to someone else...

Thank you Daniel for sharing the stories of Ishmael with all those ready to hear with their hearts!

Bobbi-Lee Taylor <>
Vancouver, BC Canada - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 11:21:14 (PST)
Tim Vanderheide <>
sarnia, on canada - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 08:19:11 (PST)
My wife gave me a wonderful surprise this Christmas, a copy of My Ishmael, Kind of ironic on Mother Culture's biggest Feast day.
Having read Ishamel & B, I was anxious to start right in. I have given Ishamel to several teachers in my school, but never felt comfortable giving it to students. THANK YOU for the tweive year old perspective, I now feel that I will be able to share this story with my students in a way that is more understandable. Please keep me posted.

Greg Haughey <>
Dover, DE USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 06:38:19 (PST)
just finished reading B. The message is essential for survival. Proud to have the chance to join the growing stream as it becomes the river of a changed world view. Thank you Daniel Quinn !
graeme elliott <>
hinton, wv USA - Monday, December 29, 1997 at 05:29:47 (PST)
re:above. It doesn't matter that 1/2 the population doesn't vote or even pay attention. The world is ruled by 5-10% of the population. Change can be triggered by 5-10%, or less.
Stephen Johnston <NONE>
Anchorage, AK USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 22:38:44 (PST)
Just finished the book today. Unable yet to express exactly how I feel except that I'm so very glad I read it.
kim kendall <>
washington, dc USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 17:02:18 (PST)
If 1/2 of the population really did vote and take action then we might not be in the situation that we are now.
Brian <>
USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 16:57:05 (PST)
I love Ishmael! It is such a thought provoking work of art. Ishmael and B need to be spread into every school and university NOW! Even small children have much to learn and they may just be the best place for us to begin. Keep writing, we will keep reading.

Dave Lazarus <>
Hamilton, NY USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 16:27:44 (PST)
Yehhhaaaaa! That book has put to words everything (and more) that I've felt since I was a kid! Let's say it loud "Our culture sucks!"
On a more serious and active note-we need your help! Big Mountain Support Network. We are an organiozation devoted to supporting Navajo and Hopi elders who are resisting relocation from uncle sam (who is being prodded along by Peabody Coal Co.) Relocation is genocide! Contact us at my e-mail or find Big MT. supporters in your neighborhood (we're everywhere) Thanks! "Resist much, obey little"

Patrick Garretson <>
Flagstaff, az USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 15:29:59 (PST)
Just finished "My Ishmael." I have to say that, as usual, Daniel Quinn delivers with a punch!!
I must add though that a few things disturb me. . .Ishmael bumperstickers??? Hmmmm. And a movie???? To me this undermines the integrity of the whole work - of every beautiful word written. There are better ways to spread the message, which don't invo lve capitalizing on something that is pure!!!!!!

Jess Hoar <>
Amherst, MA USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 14:38:33 (PST)
While reading ISHMAEL, I realized that passing environmental laws to limit pollution and control population is just buying time (slowing extinction). True change must come from a change in attitude among the Takers of the world (haulting extinction)!< /b>
Dave Roelofs <>
Medford, OR USA - Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 10:59:00 (PST)
I have placed several copies of Ishmael in the libraries of local schools, and intend to get more. I would be interested in the thoughts of young people - which is the more powerful vehicle for communicating with middle-schoolers, Ishmael or My Ishmae l?

Rick Harned <>
Louisville, KY USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 18:57:39 (PST)
Ishmael is one of the best book I have read in a long time. It is too bad that an ape has to sum up the distruction of this wonderful planet, but I don't think that a human could have done the job that Ishmael did with exquisite grace and attitude. I will pass this book to at least 100 other people and teach my child these true philosophies.
David Cohen <>
Queens, NY USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 17:43:06 (PST)
I love Ishamael! I am in the process of reading B and I am loving it just as much. You are totally right when you say the word must be reiterated, Mr. Quinn. I am spellbound!!!!!!!! And it's so good to have such a positive body of work to echo what we all feel is fundamentally wrong with our culture. Thank you!!!!!
aileen vang <>
los angeles, ca USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 14:48:56 (PST)
Read Ishmael years ago and continue to pass it on to others.Thought and action provoking. More schools need his book.
Michelle <>
Dallas, TX USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 12:53:22 (PST)
Having been coaxed by a friend to read "Ismael", I have become an avid Quinn reader. If you haven't read it yet, try "My Ishmael" - it starts out familiarly but takes you to unexpected places!
E. Steele <>
Lafayette, IN USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 10:12:04 (PST)
There is truth in the book that I wish I could see in the world. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen short of a cataclysmic reaction.
Chandler Briggs <>
Salinas, CA USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 10:00:31 (PST)
what to do?
Arn Lisnoff <>
Foster, RI USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 03:10:03 (PST)
Read the book, very powerful...but what's to be done when less than 1/2 the population, the very people whom would benefit from such changes, vote or take action?
Jonathan Morgenstein <>
San Francisco, CA USA - Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 00:12:27 (PST)
WOW! Ishmael is powerful and needs to be taught on a broader level so more people can be awakened to what Quinn is saying. It was the most profound book I've ever read.
Joe Palumbo <>
Syracuse, NY USA - Friday, December 26, 1997 at 16:04:15 (PST)
I haven't quite finished reading Ishmael, yet, but I have to say that it is the best book I have ever read. I try to describe it to friends, but I can't think of the right words to say about it. I basically tell them to read it, and then they will un derstand.. :)

I just want to say that it is the absolute greatest, and I want to know so much more, but I don't know from where..

Emma Stephens <>
Aldinga Beach, SA Australia - Thursday, December 25, 1997 at 19:43:29 (PST)
Bravo! Ishmael is, perhaps, the most powerful book I have ever read. I encourage everyone I meet to read Ishmael. Twice!
Matthew Normand <>
Kalamazoo, MI USA - Thursday, December 25, 1997 at 05:56:44 (PST)